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Appreciating The Legacy of Mike and Mike



If you missed the announcement this morning on ESPN Radio and television, Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic confirmed that they have been selected to enter the NAB Hall of Fame in 2016. The duo learned of the honor two weeks ago but wanted to hold off on publicly announcing it until ESPN President John Skipper was able to make the announcement with them.

MikeMike“Mike and Mike” have been a staple of sports radio since 1998 and they are more than deserving of this honor. The show has been serving listeners across the country for over 15 years, and regardless of your personal style preferences, few would deny they have a strong ability to entertain and inform. They also are very topical with their content and feature as good of a guest list as there is in radio.

In sports, if you perform at a high level, are the face of your franchise, and win multiple championships, you eventually get your name called to join the elite in the Hall of Fame. In broadcasting it’s sort of similar but the results that everyone delivers are usually very secretive so knowing the impact a show has on a local or national scale isn’t always easy to recognize.

None the less, if you’re the face of the ESPN Radio franchise for as long as “Mike and Mike” have been, clearly you’re doing something well.

Having been in this business as long as I have, I’ve seen how they operate. I was a colleague of theirs at ESPN Radio and I ran 101 ESPN in St. Louis when the station signed on and they were our morning show.

SW - JB and GolicFirst, as a colleague, they were very invested in their show and staff. Both were very approachable, although Golic was the more likely of the two to extend a hallway conversation. This was during a time when they both did TV later in the day. Greeny would contribute as a SportsCenter anchor and Golic as an Analyst on various shows. To say that they were being overextended would be an understatement.

A typical day would include hosting a 4 and a half hour (they were on from 5:30a-10a back then) morning show, showing up an hour or two before it to get ready, having a post-show conversation, discussing the next day’s plan, recording a look ahead promo for the network, and then reading liners and endorsements for local stations. After that they’d get a break, grab something to eat, maybe make a phone call or two and then it was on to preparing for the next ESPN assignment.

As the years have progressed they’ve reduced their workload but I remember how hard these guys worked for ESPN and I always respected it. We often say in radio that the top performers should lead by example, and “Mike and Mike” set a good one.

mmMore impressive to me though was how Greeny and Golic communicated with me once I was running a local station which featured them as our morning show. They cared about the success of the radio station, and although they were 1500 miles away and unable to be physically present around the brand, that didn’t stop them from doing extra things to help out. I could alert the guys of something by text or email and they’d follow up. I probably benefitted because they knew me a little but they didn’t have to. Their extra effort stood out.

One major misconception industry folks have about network programs on their airwaves is that the show is part of some other company and not connected to the radio station. That’s inaccurate. You can prefer to carry a local show, and most operators do and I happen to lean that way myself, but very few in this business would disagree that if they could hire “Mike and Mike” to do a locally focused show, they’d sign up for it in an instant. The issue was never their talent, more so the national image and topic structure.

Regardless though of where the content originates from, it’s coming through the speakers of your radio station. If it’s going to appear on your airwaves, then it’s up to the programmer, the air staff, the sales staff and the production department to make it sound connected to everything else the radio station does.

I’d write personality promos for the guys that offered a local twist, we’d use clips from their show in recorded show promos that focused on issues of importance to the local audience, we’d play soundbites from their shows that touched on local subjects and have our other local shows discuss them, and we’d have the guys call into our local programs occasionally plus voice commercials for local clients.

We even had them in town for a LIVE broadcast around the All-Star game and got them to do a video piece to recap their in-market visit. By the way, the girl at the end of the video was not staged. It happened organically and couldn’t have worked out any better.

Not every national host works this way but Greeny and Golic understood that by supporting us, it made it easier to support them. No business relationship works without a mutual commitment. Despite St. Louis being a provincial town which cares deeply about local issues and less about national topics, the program was consistently rated in the top 5 and was as high as #3 while I was there.


Funny enough, the show almost never made the air. The original plan in St. Louis wasn’t to put them on 101 ESPN. Instead the plan was to go local in mornings and carry Colin Cowherd. I love Colin’s show and being local in morning drive presented more business opportunities for the brand than middays, but as we sized up situations and analyzed what would be best to generate ratings, the plan got changed. I’m thankful it did because it worked.

And that’s probably the best way I can describe “Mike and Mike” to someone who asks about their morning show – it just works.

twasThe show has become a big part of the sports radio format’s growth over the past fifteen years, and that speaks to their ability to not only have outstanding talent, but also evolve with the times. People don’t realize that Golic has had a longer career in broadcasting than football, and he’s been gone from the NFL for 22 years. What worked on-air in the late 90’s and early 2000’s is different than what works now, but yet they keep finding their way into good content. Social media also didn’t exist back then yet both guys are present and active in the space.

Two final things stand out to me in evaluating the legacy of “Mike and Mike”.

First, their success validates ESPN’s decision to build the radio network profile around them. In the mid-2000’s, the network was seen as the playground for Tony Kornheiser and Dan Patrick. Bruce Gilbert and the higher ups had a different vision and wanted to showcase Greeny and Golic more. Before too long the television simulcast was born and TV promos became heavily present on all ESPN programming showcasing the differences between the two men.

The campaign connected with everyday people, and as more people flocked to the show, “Mike and Mike” did a good job of keeping them around. Throughout the years they’ve continued to use television marketing to grow the awareness of the “Mike and Mike” brand, taking on different messaging along the way, and once again, it has resonated.

Despite the show’s awareness being sky high and the product itself maintaining a level of excellence for more than fifteen years, there have been concerns with the show in recent times. Last year Cris Carter was often a third member of the show during the football season, and the network announced plans this past May to add Molly Qerim as a permanent part of the program.

Except it never happened. And I believe that’s a good thing.

Here’s the deal, if you don’t like what “Mike and Mike” bring to the table, that’s fine. I’ve never once heard anyone say the show lacked chemistry or ability and I find that those who reject the show, usually do so because they prefer local programming or more opinionated personalities like Colin Cowherd and Jim Rome.

mikemikeBut that’s not who they are or claim to be and to expect them to be something different is asking them to not be authentic. Sure the show can be corny at times and I’ve heard people tell me they feel like the show serves as the “protector of the mouse” but they also deliver excellent interviews, their topic selection is elite, and you can tune in during any 20-30 minute portion of the show and feel like you’ve caught up on what you missed last night. They inform and entertain in a way that they are comfortable with and no amount of industry or social media backlash is going to change that. Nor should it.

Can you imagine if social media was around in the 60’s and 70’s? Shows like “The Odd Couple”, “The Honeymooners”, “Different Strokes”, “Dukes of Hazzard” and “All In The Family” would have been crippled because of it.

I can see the tweet already, “Daisy Duke is being held back by Bo and Luke. She needs her own show“. As feedback pours in, executives react and the next thing you know, one of the great shows you grew up on gets altered simply because of the fear of negative commentary.

“Mike and Mike” may not be perfect, but they’ve stood the test of time, continue to excel and make adjustments, and they’ve led the charge for ESPN Radio for almost two decades. They deserve to enjoy this journey together for however long it will last, without anyone trying to occupy the middle seat. It’s the least they deserve for what they’ve contributed to the success of the world’s largest sports network.

As we see with so many great performers who displays their skills for a long period of time, we’re going to recognize and point out their flaws and question whether they’ve still got it. But when you add it all up, Greeny and Golic are still going strong and aren’t even close to being finished. Sometimes we stop appreciating what we have in front of us. In this case, we may have done it with a program that’s of Hall of Fame caliber.

Barrett Blogs

Would Local Radio Benefit From Hosting An Annual Upfront?



How many times have you heard this sentence uttered at conferences or in one of the trades; radio has to do a better job of telling its story. Sounds reasonable enough right? After all, your brands and companies stand a better chance of being more consumed and invested in the more that others know about them.

But what specifically about your brand’s story matters to those listening or spending money on it? Which outlets are you supposed to share that news with to grow your listenership and advertising? And who is telling the story? Is it someone who works for your company and has a motive to advance a professional agenda, or someone who’s independent and may point out a few holes in your strategy, execution, and results?

As professionals working in the media business, we’re supposed to be experts in the field of communications. But are we? We’re good at relaying news when it makes us look good or highlights a competitor coming up short. How do we respond though when the story isn’t told the we want it to? Better yet, how many times do sports/news talk brands relay information that isn’t tied to quarterly ratings, revenue or a new contract being signed? We like to celebrate the numbers that matter to us and our teams, but we don’t spend much time thinking about if those numbers matter to the right groups – the audience and the advertisers.

Having covered the sports and news media business for the past seven years, and published nearly eighteen thousand pieces of content, you’d be stunned if you saw how many nuggets of information get sent to us from industry folks looking for publicity vs. having to chase people down for details or read things on social media or listen to or watch shows to promote relevant material. Spoiler alert, most of what we produce comes from digging. There are a handful of outlets and PR folks who are great, and five or six PD’s who do an excellent job consistently promoting news or cool things associated with their brands and people. Some talent are good too at sharing content or tips that our website may have an interest in.

Whether I give the green light to publish the material or not, I appreciate that folks look for ways to keep their brands and shows on everyone’s radar. Brand leaders and marketing directors should be battling daily in my opinion for recognition anywhere and everywhere it’s available. If nobody is talking about your brand then you have to give them a reason to.

I’m writing this column today because I just spent a day in New York City at the Disney Upfront, which was attended by a few thousand advertising professionals. Though I’d have preferred a greater focus on ESPN than what was offered, I understand that a company the size of Disney with so many rich content offerings is going to have to condense things or they’d literally need a full week of Upfronts to cover it all. They’re also trying to reach buyers and advertising professionals who have interests in more than just sports.

What stood out to me while I was in attendance was how much detail went into putting on a show to inform, entertain, and engage advertising professionals. Disney understands the value of telling its story to the right crowd, and they rolled out the heavy hitters for it. There was a strong mix of stars, executives, promotion of upcoming shows, breaking news about network deals, access to the people responsible for bringing advertising to life, and of course, free drinks. It was easy for everyone in the room to gain an understanding of the company’s culture, vision, success, and plans to capture more market share.

As I sat in my seat, I wondered ‘why doesn’t radio do this on a local level‘? I’m not talking about entertaining clients in a suite, having a business dinner for a small group of clients or inviting business owners and agency reps to the office for a rollout of forthcoming plans. I’m talking about creating an annual event that showcases the power of a cluster, the stars who are connected to the company’s various brands, unveiling new shows, promotions and deals, and using the event as a driver to attract more business.

Too often I see our industry rely on things that have worked in the past. We assume that if it worked before there’s no need to reinvent the wheel for the client. Sometimes that’s even true. Maybe the advertiser likes to keep things simple and communicate by phone, email or in-person lunch meetings. Maybe a creative powerpoint presentation is all you need to get them to say yes. If it’s working and you feel that’s the best way forward to close business, continue with that approach. There’s more than one way to reach the finish line.

But I believe that most people like being exposed to fresh ideas, and given a peak behind the curtain. The word ‘new’ excites people. Why do you think Apple introduces a new iPhone each year or two. We lose sight sometimes of how important our brands and people are to those not inside the walls of our offices. We forget that whether a client spends ten thousand or ten million dollars per year with our company, they still like to be entertained. When you allow business people to feel the excitement associated with your brand’s upcoming events, see the presentations on a screen, and hear from and interact with the stars involved in it, you make them feel more special. I think you stand a better chance of closing deals and building stronger relationships that way.

Given that many local clusters have relationships with hotels, theaters, teams, restaurants, etc. there’s no reason you can’t find a central location, and put together an advertiser appreciation day that makes partners feel valued. You don’t have to rent out Pier 36 like Disney or secure the field at a baseball stadium to make a strong impression. We show listeners they’re valued regularly by giving away tickets, cash, fan appreciation parties, etc. and guess what, it works! Yes there are expenses involved putting on events, and no manager wants to hear about spending money without feeling confident they’ll generate a return on investment. That said, taking calculated risks is essential to growing a business. Every day that goes by where you operate with a ‘relying on the past’ mindset, and refuse to invest in growth opportunities, is one that leaves open the door for others to make sure your future is less promising.

There are likely a few examples of groups doing a smaller scaled version of what I’m suggesting. If you’re doing this already, I’d love to hear about it. Hit me up through email at By and large though, I don’t see a lot of must-see, must-discuss events like this created that lead to a surplus of press, increased relationships, and most importantly, increased sales. Yet it can be done. Judging from some of the feedback I received yesterday talking to people in the room, it makes an impression, and it matters.

I don’t claim to know how many ad agency executives and buyers returned to the office from the Disney Upfront and reached out to sign new advertising deals with the company. What I am confident in is that Disney wouldn’t invest resources in creating this event nor would other national groups like NBC, FOX, CBS, WarnerMedia, etc. if they didn’t feel it was beneficial to their business. Rather than relying on ratings and revenue stories that serve our own interests, maybe we’d help ourselves more by allowing our partners and potential clients to experience what makes our brands special. It works with our listeners, and can work with advertisers too.

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Barrett Blogs

Takeaways From The NAB Show and Six Days in Las Vegas

“I’m certainly not afraid to be critical but my enthusiasm for the NAB Show was elevated this year.”



Six days on the road can sometimes be exhausting. Six days in Las Vegas, and it’s guaranteed. That was my world last week, as I along with more than fifty thousand people headed to sin city to take in the 2022 NAB Show.

The event didn’t draw as many as it had in the past, but after two years of inactivity due to the pandemic, it was good to be back. Judging from some of the vendors I talked to, the sessions I attended, and the feedback I received from folks I met with, though far from perfect, it was a solid return for an important event. Seeing people interact, celebrate others, and talk about ways to improve the business was a positive reminder of the world being closer to the normal of 2019 than the normal of 2020-2021. The only negative from the week, the consistent failure of Uber to appear in the right place at the right time. But that had zero to do with the NAB.

It feels like whenever I attend industry conferences, there are two different type of reviews that follow. Some writers attend the show and see the glass half full. Others see the glass half empty. I’m certainly not afraid to be critical but my enthusiasm was elevated this year. Maybe it was because BSM was a media partner or maybe it was due to the show not happening for years and just being happy to be among friends, peers, and clients and operate like normal. Either way, my glass was definitely half full.

For those who see events this way, it’s likely they’ll remember the numerous opportunities they had to create and reestablish relationships. They’ll also recall the access to different speakers, sessions, products, and the excellent research shared with those in attendance. The great work done by the BFOA to recognize industry difference makers during their Wednesday breakfast was another positive experience, as was the Sunday night industry gathering at The Mayfair Supper Club.

Included in the conference were sessions with a number of industry leaders. Radio CEO’s took the stage to point out the industry’s wins and growth, credit their employees, and call out audio competitors, big tech, and advertisers for not spending more with the industry. When David Field, Bob Pittman, Ginny Morris and Caroline Beasley speak, people listen. Though their companies operate differently, hearing them share their views on the state of the business is important. I always learn something new when they address the room.

But though a lot of ground gets covered during these interviews, there are a few issues that don’t get talked about enough. For instance, ineffective measurement remains a big problem for the radio business. Things like this shouldn’t happen, but they do. NBC and WarnerMedia took bold steps to address problems with TV measurement. Does radio have the courage to take a similar risk? That’s an area I’d like to see addressed more by higher ups.

I can’t help but wonder how much money we lose from this issue. Companies spend millions for a ratings service that delivers subpar results, and the accountability that follows is often maddening. Given the data we have access to digitally, it’s stunning that radio’s report card for over the air listening is determined by outdated technology. And if we’re going to tell folks that wearables are the missing ingredient for addressing this problem, don’t be shocked if the press that follows is largely negative. The industry and its advertising partners deserve better. So too do the reps at Nielsen who have to absorb the hits, and make the most of a tough situation.

Speaking of advertising, this is another one of those critical areas that deserves another point of view. Case in point, I talked to a few ad agency professionals at the show. Similar to what I’ve heard before, they’re tired of hearing radio leaders blame them for the industry’s present position. This has been a hot button topic with executives for years. I often wonder, do we help or hurt ourselves by publicly calling out advertisers and ad agencies? How would you feel if you ran an agency which spent millions on the industry and were told ‘you don’t do enough’? I’m a champion of radio/audio, and am bullish on spoken word’s ability to deliver results for clients, but having attended these shows for nearly seven years, it might be time for a new approach and message. Or maybe it’s time to put one of our CEO’s with one of theirs and have a bigger discussion. Just a thought.

Of the sessions that I attended, I thought Erica Farber’s ‘What Business Are You In?’ was excellent. I especially liked Taja Graham’s presentation on ‘Sharing Your Truth’. I also appreciated Eric Bischoff’s tips on ways to monetize podcasts, and am curious to see how Amazon’s AMP develops moving forward. My favorite session at the show though was “A GPS Session For Your Station’s Car Radio Strategy” led by Fred Jacobs. The insight shared by Joe D’Angelo of Xperi and Steve Newberry & Suzy Schultz of Quu was outstanding. Keeping the car companies on our side is vital to our survival, and how we position ourselves on the dashboard can’t be ignored. Other tech companies and audio operators take it seriously. We must too.

Sessions aside, it was great to check out the VSiN and Blue Wire studios, connect with a bunch of CEO’s, GM’s and Market Manager’s, and visit with Kevin Jones, Joe Fortenbaugh, Jeremiah Crowe, Jon Goulet, Bill Adee, Q Myers, Mike Golic Jr. and Stormy Buonantony. The NFL’s setup for the Draft, and the light show presented at the Bellagio was without a doubt spectacular, plus Stephanie had a chance to say hello to Raiders owner Mark Davis who was inside the back room of a Westgate restaurant where we were having a business lunch meeting. The personal tour we received at the Wynn showed off some of the best suites I’ve seen in Las Vegas, and I was finally able to witness Circa’s Stadium Swim in person, and meet owner Derek Stevens (heck of a suit game). What an outstanding hotel and casino.

Altogether, it was a productive trip. As someone who knows all about building and executing a conference, I appreciate the work that goes into pulling it off. This event is massive, and I have no idea how the NAB makes it happen so flawlessly. This was the first time my head of sales, Stephanie Eads, got to attend the show. She loved it. Our only negative, going back and forth between convention halls can get exhausting. Wisely, Stephanie and Guaranty Media CEO Flynn Foster took advantage of the underground Tesla ride to move from the North hall to the West hall. I wasn’t as bright. If that’s the worst part of the experience though, that’s pretty solid. I look forward to returning in 2023, and attending the NAB’s NYC show this fall.


You’ve likely seen posts from BSM/BNM on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn promoting a number of open positions. I’m adding crew to help us pump out more content, and that means we need more editors, news writers, features reporter’s and columnists. If you’re currently involved or previously worked in the industry and love to write about it, send a resume and few writing samples by email to

With that said, I’m excited to announce the addition of Ryan Brown as a weekly columnist for BSM. Ryan is part of ‘The Next Round’ in Birmingham, Alabama, which previously broadcast on WJOX as JOX Roundtable. The show left the terrestrial world in June 2021 to operate as its own entity. Ryan’s knowledge and opinions should provide a boost to the site, and I’m looking forward to featuring his columns every Tuesday. Keep an eye out for it tomorrow, and if you want to check out the guest piece he previously wrote for us, click here.

Demetri Ravanos and I have talked to a lot of people over the past month. More additions will be revealed soon. As always, thanks for the continued support of BSM and BNM.

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Barrett Blogs

Six New Contributors Join Barrett Media

“These latest additions will make our product better. Now the challenge is finding others to help us continue growing.”



Building a brand starts with a vision. Once that vision is defined, you identify the people who fit what you’re creating, lay out the game plan, and turn them loose to execute. If the product you’re creating is original, fills a gap in the marketplace, and the work turned in by your team is consistently excellent and promoted in the right locations, more times than not you’ll build an audience.

As you grow, the focus turns to studying what your audience wants, needs, and expects from your brand. Certain things you expect to be big turn out small, and the things you saw limited upside in create opportunities you never saw coming. It’s critical to be open minded and ready to pivot while also examining where and when people consume your product, which pieces of content do and don’t matter, and then use that information to direct your team to give folks more of what they value and less of what they don’t. Team members should want that feedback too. It tells them what is and isn’t worth spending their time on.

As I lay all of that out it may sound like I’m talking about a radio station or television operation. These are the things programmers do frequently to make sure the talent, shows, and brand is satisfying the expectations of an audience. But what I’m actually referring to is the brand you’ve made a choice to click on to read this column, Barrett Media.

I’ve mentioned many times on this website how I started this operation by myself, and didn’t expect to have a team of writers involved in it. I was focused on consulting sports stations, sharing my programming views on this website, and as I cranked out content consistently, I discovered others loved the business like I did and had a desire to share their insights too. Rather than sticking to my original plan, I pivoted and increased our content offerings. In return, the audience grew, clients grew, and it’s led this brand to grow beyond my expectations. Now we cover sports AND news media, we run an annual conference, feature a membership program, create podcasts, deliver a daily 8@8 and three times per week BNM Rundown newsletter, and work with various brands and companies across the broadcasting industry. I’m extremely fortunate to be in this position and don’t take it for granted.

But with growth comes change. We’ve been blessed to have a lot of talented people contribute to this site over the years, and as they produce quality work, and others across the industry recognize it, they earn interest for their services. That then leads to some having to sign off for bigger opportunities. I see that as a great positive for the brand. Would it be nice to have more consistency and keep a crew together for years? Of course. I know it’d make Demetri’s life a lot easier. If we’re losing people for the right reasons though, and they’re landing opportunities that help them advance their careers, I’m going to be happy for their success, and trust that we’ll find others to keep us moving forward. The success of our team helps make what we do more attractive to others because it shows that if you do good consistent work here, you can put yourself in a position to attract attention.

Over the past two months, I have challenged Demetri Ravanos to invest more time talking to people about writing for us. Expanding our Barrett News Media roster is a priority. So too is adding quality people to help us improve Barrett Sports Media. BSM has had just under seven years to earn trust with readers. BNM has had less than two. We’ve put out ads on our website and newsletters, social posts, an ad on Indeed, and we’ve reached out directly to people who we’ve felt may be able to add something interesting to our brand. Most of my time is spent listening to stations and talking with clients, but my eyes are always roaming looking for content, and my mind is always thinking about what we can create next to make an impact.

I don’t judge our brand’s success based on clicks, shares, breaking news before other outlets or showing up in the top three listings on Google. I care more effort accuracy, timeliness, passion, consistency, storytelling, insight, and being fair and non-agenda driven. We’ve found our niche being able to tell stories about broadcasting professionals, relaying news, and offering expert knowledge to serve those involved in the broadcasting industry. If we continue to excel doing those things consistently, I’m confident our audience will reward us by reading and sharing more of our content. It’s why we never stop recruiting to keep things fresh.

Having said that, I am excited today to reveal six new additions to the Barrett Media staff. Peter Schwartz is a name and voice many in New York sports radio circles are familiar with. Peter has spent three decades working with various outlets and I’m thrilled to have him writing weekly feature stories for us. Brady Farkas is a talented host and former programmer who now works for WDEV in Burlington, VT. Karl Schoening is a play by play broadcaster who has worked in San Antonio sports radio and has had the added benefit of learning the industry from his talented father Bill who calls Spurs games. Each of them will produce bi-weekly feature stories for the brand. Jason Ence is in Louisville and has written about sports betting for Twin Spires while also working for ESPN 680. He’ll be writing sports betting content for us on a weekly basis. Jasper Jones will help us by adding news stories on Friday’s. He’s presently in Philadelphia learning the business working for Audacy. Last but not least, veteran author, Brewers writer, and former radio professional Jim Cryns comes on board to help us with features on news media professionals.

These six additions make us stronger, and I’m excited to have them join the team to help us add more quality content to the website. That said, we’re not done yet. Demetri and I are still talking with others and I expect to make a few more additions in the weeks ahead. As I said earlier, we want to improve the news media side of our operation and continue adding people to help us make a bigger dent in the sports media space. Broadcast companies invest in us to help them, and I believe it’s important to invest back.

If you’ve programmed, hosted a top rated show, worked in measurement, led a cluster as a GM, sold advertising, represented talent or have worked in digital and feel you have knowledge to share, reach out. I can’t promise we’ll have room but we’re always willing to listen. I’m not worried about whether or not you’ve written for professional publications. Passion, experience and unique insights matter much more than a resume or journalism degree.

I appreciate everyone who takes time to read our content, like and share it on social, and all involved with this brand who help bring it to life each day. The latest additions of Schwartz, Farkas, Schoening, Ence, Jones and Cryns will make our product better. Now the challenge is finding others to help us continue growing.

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