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Is Radio Still Willing To Pay For Premium Talent?

Jason Barrett

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If you haven’t heard Mike Francesa’s interview with Katie Nolan you need to stop what you’re doing and listen to it. It is fascinating and one of the most refreshing one-hour conversations I’ve listened to in a long time.

Why might you ask?

Because it not only covers every single subject that would be of interest to Mike’s audience, but his unfiltered responses remind us of why he’s been one of the most dominant forces of all-time in this industry. I give a ton of credit to Katie for being well prepared and doing a great job of listening and guiding the discussion into the right locations.

When it comes to Mike, he has a large amount of fans and critics. That’s to be expected when you perform up to thirty hours per week on the air for nearly three decades in the nation’s number one media market.

mikef2Some take jabs at him for being wrong with some of his predictions. Others point out how he once fell asleep on the air for nearly fifteen seconds while interviewing Sweeny Murti. Countless others criticize the fact that he’s not active in the social media space, relies heavily on phone calls, and is a beneficiary of getting into the format early.

Say what you will about “The Pope of New York Sports” but his resume of success is unmatched. When you build the type of brand that Mike has, it’s common to have others poking holes in your performance.

The reality in life is that most people like to see David upset Goliath. It’s why teams like the New York Yankees, Dallas Cowboys, and the Los Angeles Lakers draw the amount of attention that they do. Legions of fans recognize and appreciate their greatness but many love to see them crash and burn.

I grew up listening to “Mike and the Mad Dog” and the show inspired me to pursue working in this industry. I was fortunate to live in New York and watch as the format took off and morphed into the juggernaut that it has become today. WFAN played a strong role in sports radio’s growth because they did a masterful job of making New York listeners feel like they were a big part of the experience.

WFANWhen you listened to WFAN, it felt big and important. The personalities seemed larger than life and when you called in and became a part of the show by sharing your opinion with the hosts, there was a sense that your voice mattered and the local teams took notice. It felt as if the radio station’s airwaves were the place you’d turn to for holding hold players, coaches, teams and executives accountable for their actions and/or performance.

Truth be told, before I ever considered working in in this business I preferred to listen, but after sitting on the sidelines observing for eight years, I finally took the bait and called in one day after the Knicks defeated the Bulls and Phil Jackson was whining about the referees. I thought I had a good angle and when I presented it to Francesa he absolutely crushed me. Just thinking about it still makes me smile.

As the year’s have passed, the radio station has remained one of the best in the business. They’ve dealt with additional competition, changes in ratings methodology, and a loss of some of the industry’s most iconic broadcasters and play-by-play partnerships, but through it all they’ve remained highly successful.

Whether you care for Francesa’s style and show though isn’t what we’re here to discuss today. Instead I want to focus on some of the key points he made during his conversation with Nolan because they touch on a scary reality that is facing our business.

mikechrisWhen asked about the possibility of a “Mike and the Mad Dog” permanent reunion, Mike said “I don’t think we would be the obstacle. I think the business is the obstacle. They don’t want guys like me in this business anymore. They don’t want stars. They don’t want guys who are making a lot of money. They want a bunch of cookie cutter people who they can control that aren’t any trouble. They want a bunch of nameless faceless guys. They want the events and rights fees to carry the day and make the sportscasters interchangeable. That makes it a tough business.”

Let that sink in for a second.

The top performer in the #1 media market in the country who has delivered big ratings for nearly thirty years believes operators are less interested in paying for major brands and top talent.

Is he right? To a certain degree I think he is.

We’ve all heard the phrase “you get what you pay for” and in radio’s case, the future is going to be very unforgiving if the best performers aren’t available to be heard. There are many content options out there now, and new media companies will pay high profile talent and offer them a stage to perform on if they can help them grow their business.

sternDon’t believe me? Just take a look at the way Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube, Facebook and Twitter have blossomed. Just last month before Howard Stern signed a new deal with SiriusXM, there was talk that Apple/iTunes was considering making a run at him.

When Bill Simmons and ESPN split up in 2015, many thought he’d have lesser options but then HBO entered the picture. When Colin Cowherd’s run with ESPN was coming to a close, he had conversations with MSNBC before agreeing to a deal with Fox Sports 1.

Years ago Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, record companies, and the entire newspaper industry thought they were untouchable but once the internet took off and new media outlets started to emerge and invest in content, talent, and a better experience, things changed quickly.

I could be wrong but when Mike says he doesn’t think a reunion with Chris would be possible based on economics, he’s right as it applies to radio. But if digital media or television enter the picture that could be a different story.

And that’s a shame because few have possessed the ability in radio to draw in listeners the way Mike and Chris did. When you add up their talent, chemistry and ability to inform and entertain, it makes for an incredible program which can make a brand a LOT of money.

rushWould a company prefer to spend less? Of course. I’m sure SiriusXM wishes they didn’t have to pay Stern a king’s ransom. The same holds true for Premiere Radio Networks with Rush Limbaugh, and any great television network which spends big money for top flight personalities who attract a large number of eyeballs.

But if you add up the expenses for any of those shows and compare them to what they generate for ratings and revenue, I guarantee you they’re making money off of their investments. Media companies don’t stay in the business of spending millions of dollars on talent unless they’re making millions more themselves.

The other part of the conversation that I want to examine is the part where Mike discussed how important the ratings are to him. It’s a lesson for every single talent to pay attention to.

rickyWhen asked about the ratings game and how it affects his show’s content, he said that he doesn’t let it change his overall approach but that he does make tweaks and is always aware of how the show is being consumed. His mindset going into his program each month is that they have one job to do – finish first! Not second, third, fourth or fifth which most others would consider a big success, first! When I heard him say that I couldn’t help but think about that classic Talladega Night’s line “If you ain’t first, you’re last“.

But I digress!

That’s a lot of pressure to put on one’s shoulders especially in a market like New York City. Mike mentioned to Katie that he once received a phone call from an executive who told him “I pay you to finish first” after he came in second. It didn’t make him happy but he understood the point.

winningFrom where I sit, I love hearing that. It’s exhilarating to know that regardless of the challenges with PPM and the countless distractions and media options that are available to listeners to pull them away from the show, that Mike makes no excuses and approaches his craft with the expectation of being the best. We need more of that in our industry. Even if you don’t hit #1, that should be the goal every time you grab a microphone and broadcast.

As a matter of fact, you can apply this to every single aspect of your life. If you’re playing sports in school or on a professional level, you should be driven to win the game and be the best player on the field. If you’re in sales, you should want to generate the most amount of money and be seen as the company’s best salesperson.

I can identify with him on this subject because I’m wired the same way. Those who know me well will attest to that.

When I played little league baseball, I won two MVP awards and went to five consecutive All-Star games because all I did was practice and play. Nothing mattered besides being the best baseball player on the field.

lars2As I aged and became more interested in music, I wanted to be the best drummer on the planet and gain a record deal. I’d listen to Lars Ulrich of Metallica, John Bonham of Led Zeppelin, and Neil Peart of Rush and picture myself surpassing them on the list of the best of all-time. I’d practice for hours each day and if I was off on a beat or drum fill, I’d do it again and again until I had it right.

I learned later that you can be the best drummer in the world but you’re not going to land a record deal unless you and the other 3-4 members of your band share the same goal, so when I gave up the chase of becoming a professional musician to work in radio, I once again pushed myself to be the very best I could be.

Throughout the years I’ve been fortunate to have that approach pay off for me. I grew from an intern to News Anchor to Sports Talk Show Host to Producer to Program Director and during that time landed five different programming jobs and produced one of the best national radio programs in the country.

Although I’d like to believe that my talent came into play at some point during each of those processes, I know that my drive and passion to win stood out.

When I was being considered for an opportunity at ESPN Radio, one manager mentioned that I hadn’t had enough major market experience and they weren’t sure if I could handle making the transition from a small market to the big stage. Their point was valid. I couldn’t do anything to change the fact that I lived and performed where I was raised so I decided to put my passion into my pitch and explain why I deserved a look.

parcellsI still have the email I sent and in it I said “Many people were critical when the NY Giants selected a Head Coach named Bill Parcells because he didn’t have any experience and was an unknown commodity. A few years later when he was winning Super Bowl’s they looked like an organization of geniuses. Your next Bill Parcells is right here and waiting to make a difference for ESPN Radio”.

Was it ballsy? Definitely. But I believed in myself and knew I could win for them and I wasn’t going to let a situation beyond my control cost me an opportunity. If they didn’t think I was good enough I could’ve accepted that but I wasn’t accepting rejection over my location.

Luckily I landed the job and produced at ESPN Radio for 2 years. Week after week I pushed everyone involved to make “GameNight” as great as it possibly could be, and in doing so I earned the respect of my peers and my bosses. When a bigger opportunity came up to produce “The Dan Patrick Show” just 13 months later, I was given the promotion.

That same mindset helped me when I interviewed for programming opportunities in Philadelphia, San Francisco and St. Louis. In each situation, I entered the process determined to beat the competition and land the job. I had no idea who I was up against, and in many cases I had no local market connection, but what I did have was vision, passion, and an “I won’t lose” attitude. I focused on articulating my vision, asking questions, and selling my love and passion for coaching and creating great sports radio. By focusing on the things I could control, I was able to gain a few fans and win over a few rooms.

I don’t bring up these examples to showcase my resume. I mention them because they help to reinforce Mike’s point. Winning starts with your mindset. You can’t perform as an elite talent or lead a brand to incredible heights if you don’t set your own bar extremely high.

valueWhen I see brands sitting in 20th to 30th place and just floundering in their markets it frustrates me. It tells me that there isn’t a big focus on the radio station. Why be in the format and spend any amount of money on a product if you’re not going to maximize its potential? I get that not every city has the budget to pay a Mike Francesa but there are tons of great broadcasters out there and if you want to build an audience, attract advertisers, and make money in this industry, you’ve got to invest in on-air people who are worth listening to.

To bring this back full circle to what we originally started with, once you have great talent, it’s your job to find a way to keep them. I had a former boss of mine in San Francisco once tell me “we will pay for performers but nobody is breaking the bank until they prove it”. That’s a fair statement but unfortunately not every broadcast group subscribes to this theory.

During the past few months I’ve talked to a lot of talent and in three different cases, hosts took over timeslots in different cities and led their stations to double digit ratings and/or double to triple the previous ratings performance, only to be told when contract time rolled around that they weren’t due a raise or were only worth a minimal 1-2% increase.

I’ve also watched as some talented people I know have had to take on responsibilities selling their own shows to make extra money, and a few groups in particular have chosen to only hire talent who sell or pay for their air time. Delivering ratings and a quality product matters little in comparison to inflating the bottom line.

imptIn some of these instances it might be necessary to operate that way. If a company isn’t making money you can’t blame them for not being able to do better. But if that’s the case, there are other ways to show your appreciation for someone who has performed and is helping do their part to grow the business. Whether it’s an extra week of vacation, sales trade, a bump in ratings bonuses, a higher endorsement rate, a guarantee number of appearances, or an extra weekend shift to make additional dollars, all of those things tell a talent “we want you to make more money and you’re important to us”.

When you don’t treat your best people with that respect, you end up losing the pieces that are most vital to your operation. Music formats can get away with it more because they can play songs and tell a DJ that the artists are the stars, but when a personality talks 45 minutes per hour, and is the main reason why people come to your radio station on a daily basis, losing them over a handful of dollars isn’t smart business.

That said, this also is an industry that has compensated a lot of talented people well throughout the course of their careers. The format’s top talent wouldn’t be sticking around for decades if the paychecks and additional revenue streams weren’t attractive.

mikefI’ve heard Francesa say that he’s done with WFAN at the end of 2017, and he says it’s not a negotiating ploy. I don’t know him personally to know if it is or it isn’t but it sounds as if he knows a pay cut awaits him in the future and given his performance and place in the industry, I can see why that doesn’t have a lot of appeal to him. That said, WFAN pays him extremely well so we’re not talking about a couple of nickels and dimes in this situation.

It’s a tough spot for both sides to be in because from the operator’s standpoint, you’re paying millions for a host during a time when salaries are declining and no matter how much you love the performer, there has to be a limit to what you’ll invest.

On the flip side, how do you tell your top talent that you’ll pay them one fee to finish 1st, and then when they do, offer half or even less on their next deal? Is the radio station going to sell ads for less and accept making less money during the duration of the talent’s agreement? Heck no! So why should they take less when they’ve performed and helped the company make a lot of money?

Everyone gets their feelings hurt once it’s time to talk business because the offer (or lack thereof) tells an employee what the company thinks they’re worth. Personalities expect to be paid for hitting their target and companies expect to grow their bottom line and reap the rewards of making significant investments.

When talent though start getting treated as if they’re expendable, and the product becomes less appealing to the audience, you’ve got to ask yourself “is saving the money truly worth it if it means losing your most valuable commodity and having your audience and advertiser numbers decline”?

The challenge of course is to keep your listeners tuned in, your advertisers spending the same or more, and hire new talent for less than the previous host made but at a number that they feel comfortable with. While that sounds great, it doesn’t always work out like that. It’s even more of a risk when it involves a top talent with a lengthy track record and loyal following.

espn2Mike made the point that SportsCenter isn’t what it used to be and most people couldn’t name the anchors on the show today like they once did. The show was once a must-watch and the hosts were household brand names. Today the stars have become the highlights, the games, and the packages, and the talent have become nameless and faceless.

In this case, he’s not wrong. I spent my 20’s and early 30’s fully invested in watching SportsCenter each night. Now, it’s become background noise and a show I can live without.

Which brings me back to the question I previously asked “is losing your best talent and damaging your brand in exchange for eliminating expenses really worth it”?

When you have a superstar talent on your airwaves, delivering an impact, and it’s helping you make money, you continue investing and riding that horse as far as they’ll take you. If you choose to get off the ride when you’re on top of the mountain, understand that the next one could leave you face down in the dirt.

Barrett Blogs

Colin Cowherd, Jim Rome, Joy Taylor, Don Martin, Sam Pines and Amanda Brown to Speak at the 2023 BSM Summit

“All six of these media professionals have enjoyed success throughout their careers and bring different perspectives, styles, and experiences to the room.”

Jason Barrett

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I announced last week that the 2023 BSM Summit will be returning to Los Angeles. We had a fantastic experience in LA in 2019, and I expect our next conference on March 21-22, 2023 to be even bigger and better. But to do that, we need the right people on stage, and I’m excited today to reveal the first six additions to the show.

The 2023 BSM Summit in Los Angeles is proud to welcome FOX Sports Radio and FOX Sports 1 host Colin Cowherd, FOX Sports 1 co-host of the new weekday program SPEAK, Joy Taylor, CBS Sports Radio and CBS Sports Network superstar Jim Rome, FOX Sports Radio and iHeart Sports SVP of Programming, Don Martin, and the brain trust of ESPN LA 710, Senior Vice President Sam Pines and program director Amanda Brown.

All six of these media professionals have enjoyed success throughout their careers. They bring different perspectives, styles, and experiences to the room, and I’m sure those in attendance at The Founders Club at the Galen Center at USC will enjoy and appreciate learning from them.

We will have more announcements in the future about additional speakers to the 2023 BSM Summit. A reminder that if you work in the media industry and would like to attend the conference, you can purchase tickets and secure your hotel room by visiting BSMSummit.com.

I’d also like to thank last year’s sponsors who have already confirmed participation in our 2023 event. The Summit isn’t possible without their support. For folks interested in sponsorship details for the conference, please email Stephanie at Sales@BarrettSportsMedia.com.

Now here’s some press information about each of our six participants.

Colin Cowherd: He is one of the most thought-provoking and successful sports talk show hosts in the country, and has been a key part of FOX Sports Radio and FOX Sports 1 since September 2015. He is also the founder of The Volume, a digital-first sports media brand which has created an immediate impact in podcasting and on YouTube.

Cowherd’s three-hour sports talk program, THE HERD WITH COLIN COWHERD, airs simultaneously on FS1 and the FOX Sports Radio Network weekdays from Noon to 3pm ET. It is also available on www.FOXSportsRadio.comwww.FOXSports.com and has a dedicated iHeartRadio station, available live and throughout the day. The Herd has been chosen by industry programmers and executives as the top national sports talk radio show an unprecedented six times in seven years as part of BSM’s annual Top 20 series.

Jim Rome: Jim Rome is heard nationwide hosting ‘The Jim Rome Show‘ weekdays from Noon to 3pm ET on CBS Sports Radio. The program can also be watched on the CBS Sports Network. The show delivers three hours of aggressive, informed sports opinions, rapid-fire dialogue, tons of sports smack, and is consistently supported by Rome’s legions of fans otherwise known as the clones.

Rome also delivers his unique take on the day’s sports headlines via the CBS Sports Minute, 60-second commentaries which can be heard hourly on CBS Sports Radio affiliate stations. He also hosts his own podcast, The Reinvention Project, contributes to CBS Sports television, and has previously been seen on ESPN, FOX Sports, and in numerous movies and TV shows.

Joy Taylor: Joy Taylor co-hosts FS1’s new weekday program SPEAK alongside Emmanuel Acho and former NFL running back LeSean McCoy. She has previously worked as a co-host on THE HERD, as the moderator of SKIP AND SHANNON: UNDISPUTED, and as the host of her own podcast, “Maybe I’m Crazy”. She has also hosted programs for FOX Sports Radio.

Prior to joining FOX Sports, Taylor spent five years in Miami radio, including a successful three-year stint at 790 AM The Ticket, where she was co-host for the station’s top-rated morning-drive program, “Zaslow and Joy Show,” after starting with the station as the show’s executive producer. Taylor also served as the host of “Thursday Night Live” and “Fantasy Football Today” on CBSSports.com. She is a Pittsburgh native and the younger sister of former Miami Dolphins star Jason Taylor.

Don Martin: A 27-year veteran of iHeartMedia, Don is currently the SVP of Programming for FOX Sports Radio, the EVP for iHeartMedia Sports, and the SVP of KLAC-AM 570 LA Sports. Additionally, he provides oversight of the iHeartPodcast Network, which includes more than 40 national and 100 local sports podcasts and exclusive podcast agreements with the NFL and NBA. Don has been a featured speaker at prior BSM Summit’s and was recently a guest on The Jason Barrett Podcast. To hear it, click here.

Sam Pines: A fixture with Good Karma Brands since 2000, Pines is now charged with leading ESPN LA 710 since GKB assumed control of local operations. Prior to taking over the Los Angeles sports brand, Pines served as the GM and Sales Manager of ESPN Cleveland from 2006-2022. He has written a sales and leadership series, “Time to Win”, which focuses on coaching relationship-based selling and marketing, and is also involved with numerous boards and nonprofits.

Amanda Brown: Amanda has spent her entire twenty year career in sports radio working for the worldwide leader in sports. Currently responsible for creating and implementing the programming strategy for ESPN LA 710, Amanda has enjoyed nearly twelve years with the LA based brand after spending nearly six years in Bristol, CT producing national shows for the ESPN Radio network. Her career started behind the scenes in Dallas, TX where she worked as a producer at ESPN 103.3.

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Barrett Blogs

7 Years of BSM and The Official Announcement For The 2023 BSM Summit

“Fast forward to now, and where this thing has advanced to is far beyond my expectations.”

Jason Barrett

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Apologies in advance if some of this column feels like I’m giving myself and our brand a pat on the back. I am. When this company launched, many assumed I was just writing a few articles and biding my time until another programming job popped up. I had a number of friends say ‘there’s no future in sports radio consulting‘ and after putting my programming career in the rear view mirror to go home to NY, I wasn’t sure what was in store for me.

What I did know is that my interest in doing the same thing that I just did for the past decade in three different cities was gone, but my interest in working with brands and individuals was still very much alive. I loved creating and programming 95.7 The Game but my choice to come home was driven by personal reasons, not professional. I wrote in great detail about it back in February 2015 so if you’re not aware of my story and want to know more, click the link.

Some of you do know these details already so I’m not going to repeat myself. I also don’t like talking on this website about personal issues because that’s not what brings us together each day. Media news, insight, and opinion does. But when this day rolls around each year, I hope you can understand why I take a moment to celebrate it. I moved home with no job, no plan, and no business but 7 years later, here we are are still ticking.

Launching this company has been the best professional decision I’ve ever made. Erika Nardini just had this conversation recently with Mark Cuban and he said taking a leap when you have nothing is the best time to do so. As crazy as that sounds, he couldn’t have been more right. That said, it’s pretty humbling going from successfully managing a top 4 market brand and earning six figures to being unemployed with no income and not being sure what you want to do. There were many days where I wondered ‘what was this all for?’. I hadn’t been without a job for a long time but I didn’t want to rush into something I wasn’t excited about especially since I knew I had to take care of my son and wanted to set a good example for him.

When I announced I was leaving San Francisco, I said I’d consider staying with the company if a position could be created that would allow me to work from NY and travel to help brands. Entercom back then wasn’t as big as Audacy is now, so that wasn’t an option. That led to small talk about consulting but quite frankly, I had no interest in doing that. I thought consulting was something folks did at the end of their careers or others used as a temporary excuse to explain what they were up to after leaving a job. I was 41 at the time and felt I had two decades left to give to the business, and if I was going to go down that road, I’d do it differently.

As I began to clear my head and think about what was next, I decided I was going to create the position that Entercom didn’t have available except rather than being exclusive to one group, I’d be accessible to all of them. I wanted to make a difference in multiple cities and expand my reach beyond radio. Now I work with brands involved in radio, TV, podcasting, social media, sales, sports betting, etc..

I’m also very entrepreneurial, so the idea of building a digital company that focused on covering the sports media business had great appeal to me. I built my radio career by doing everything early on and saw that as an advantage. Back in 2015, there were outlets covering the radio business, but none dedicated to sports radio. Even the newspapers that wrote about sports TV and other media issues, often examined them with folks who hadn’t been on the inside for quite some time. I had recent experiences programming brands in three different parts of the country, I learned how to build a website, I didn’t mind selling myself, and I wasn’t restricted from writing and sharing my honest and candid opinions. That helped me give BSM life and a voice. I also had one other advantage. I was talking weekly with industry people, going to different cities to work with multiple groups and seeing up close why certain things worked and others didn’t. That helped me tell better stories, build deeper relationships, and assist clients with greater knowledge.

Fast forward to now, and where this thing has advanced to is far beyond my expectations. I’ve been presented with opportunities to work with groups I never expected. I’ve had people reach out to present opportunities, including purchasing the company, that others would be shocked were considered (Btw I’m not looking to sell). Our brand now generates hundreds of thousands in traffic per month thanks to an exceptional team of 20 writers which produces 35-40 pieces of content per day on the sports and news media industry. In fact, August was our best month of traffic this year. We were up 30% year over year. We create 5 podcasts per week, distribute multiple newsletters, consult a strong amount of media brands, sell and work with advertising partners to help grow their businesses, deliver content through social media channels that are followed by thousands of people, and host an annual conference, which is well attended and supported by industry professionals and broadcast companies.

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Which brings me to the next part of this column – the 2023 BSM Summit.

After hosting our last two shows in New York City, I told all in attendance that our next event would return to the west coast. Finding the right city and venue takes time, and this one was tough because there were great options in Las Vegas and Los Angeles, but after reviewing the possibilities, I’m thrilled to share that the 2023 BSM Summit will take place in Los Angeles, California at The Founders Club at the Galen Center at the University of Southern California. The dates will be Tuesday March 21st and Wednesday March 22nd (we didn’t want to do dates that conflicted with the NCAA Tournament). Show time both days will once again be 9a-5p PT.

I couldn’t be happier with this location. The space we have to work with is fantastic, the people involved with USC have been great, and to bring a room full of sports media professionals to the USC campus will be awesome. We’ve also partnered with the USC Hotel which is within walking distance of our venue. Room rates and ticket prices for the Summit can now be found on BSMSummit.com.

I know everyone will start texting, emailing, calling, and DM’ing to ask about tickets, speakers, sponsorships, the after-party and awards show, etc.. I’ll have follow up announcements coming soon about the first few speakers we’ve lined up. Most people attended the 2022 show live, but some checked out the show virtually too. I’m not sure yet if we’re going to make this one available virtually. If we do, we’ll announce it on the site at a later time. Like anything, if enough people want it we’ll find a way to get it done. In the meantime, Stephanie Eads is setting up conversations with former and future conference partners so if you have a sponsorship question, hit her up by email at Sales@BarrettSportsMedia.com.

One thing I do want to ask of those who are planning to attend the Summit, email me to let me know what you’re interested in learning about at the show. We’ve been blessed to have some incredibly smart, successful people in the room, but as cool as that may be, I want to make sure folks return to their buildings afterwards with information to improve their operations. This only works if you take the knowledge and use it to help your brands and people. If anything in particular is of interest, please let me know by email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com.

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As I look ahead to year 8, I’m extremely bullish on continuing our momentum on the sports media side. We’ve just added Eddie Moran as a new features writer, and if it makes business sense to add more writers or create additional podcasts down the line, we’ll examine those opportunities as they arise. A few years ago it was just Demetri and I running the day to day business. Now we have Stephanie, Andy, Garrett Searight, Arky Shea, Alex Reynolds, and Eduardo Razo involved, and though having a larger staff doesn’t guarantee success, I like how we’re positioned. If anything, our focus now is on doing impactful work not busy work. As much as I’d love to keep everyone and never stop adding, running a business effectively requires regularly examining what is and isn’t working. Having people involved who are passionate and consistently reliable is vital. If they can’t be then it means the fit isn’t right.

Having said that, I believe we can always get better. As we move ahead, I’m counting on my team to find and create more original content, strengthen and increase relationships, gain a stronger grasp of SEO, and collectively, we’ll work on improving our digital marketing to promote our content and develop better affiliate partnerships. One way the industry can help us in return, let us know when you create something on-air that might fit the site. Most of what we gather comes from finding it ourselves yet content gets created daily on sports TV and radio. We’re not going to write stories about sports opinions but if it’s media-centric, a heads up helps. So too does sharing our content on social media.

Though BSM is an integral part of our company’s future growth, I am equally as bullish on building Barrett News Media. We started BNM on September 14, 2020 and our first year was slow. We needed to dip our toe in rather than dive in head first, but over the past 9 months we’ve increased our relationships and our readers are now starting to see what we’re capable of. We’ve assembled a strong cast of news writers, reporters, and columnists, and just added to our team last week with the addition of Joe Salzone. Adding writers and consulting clients remains an ongoing process, and make no mistake about this, I want to help news/talk stations just as I have helped sports brands. Maybe down the line we’ll add a few news media podcasts too, but we have other things to focus on first.

For starters, if you’ve read this website over the years then you’re likely familiar with the BSM Top 20. It’s a series we produce recognizing the best in the sports media industry. It’s voted on by a large number of sports radio programmers and executives, and for 6 years in a row it has been our website’s largest traffic driver. I thought previously about doing a series for the news media industry, but because we had less help, little time, and an unfamiliar brand, I held off.

But that’s about to change.

Later this year, we will introduce the very first BNM Top 20 of 2022. This will include voting participation from news media programmers and executives, with the goal being to showcase the best national radio shows and podcasts, and the top local stations, shows, and PD’s from both the major and mid markets.

It will be a giant undertaking but it’s long overdue for our brand. Though I’m sure the process will be exhausting, I’m looking forward to sharing the results and shining a brighter light on the news/talk media business. When I’m ready to announce the dates and schedule for the series, we’ll reveal it here on the site and across our BNM social media channels. Stay tuned.

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As I bring this column to an end, I’ll end by sharing a few things that have surprised me over the years. First, I’m seeing less interest the past 3 years from younger people becoming programmers than I did between 2015-2019. Is that because of the pandemic? The rise of sports gambling? A lack of confidence in the radio industry? As someone who’s helped 15-20 brands find and hire brand leaders, and talks to more people than most, that’s concerning.

I think sports radio also needs to do a better job of grooming people for these roles and showing them a path to long-term success. PD’s should be more actively championing their people for growth too than they do. If you value someone and want to see him or her reap the rewards for their hard work, you have to look beyond how it’ll affect your day to day duties. Focus on the big picture, not just what makes your life easier.

What should concern executives is the fact that in the past five years, sports radio has lost Armen Williams, Jeremiah Crowe, Joe Zarbano, Adam Delevitt, Tony DiGiacomo, Terry Foxx, Brad Willis, Chris Baker, Tom Parker, Jay Taylor, Kyle Engelhart, Hoss Neupert, and John Hanson. I’m sure I’m missing a few too. That’s a lot of programming experience out the door including some with decades left to give to the industry. Maybe some weren’t built for the job long-term or others were kicking down the door and ready to lead but in most businesses, if you saw that type of change in key management roles, you’d be questioning if it’s an industry you want to be a part of. If the veterans don’t stay or become too expensive, and the leaders of tomorrow aren’t sticking around, where does that leave us?

From the talent end, how are you helping yourself when there isn’t a job to chase? If the only time you contact a PD is to ask about a gig, don’t be surprised when your calls go straight to voicemail. Relationships are a two-way street. Build them when there’s nothing to be gained and you’ll be amazed at how it pays off later. By the way, that goes for me too. I get asked by a lot of people to find time when there’s trouble in paradise but when life is good, crickets. Those who keep in touch and support BSM/BNM whether that’s through a monthly membership or buying a Summit ticket have more success getting a hold of me. I’m not trying to be a hard ass but I’m not an agent, so building your career isn’t my priority. Taking care of my family and business partners is. However, I do help people and make time for many, but it’s got to work both ways. My members and clients know they can ask for something and receive an answer. Others I’ve built and maintained relationships with receive the same. But if you’re counting on me to help you find work and gossip about the business with you, I’m not your guy.

If there’s been a winner the past 7 years it’s been the growth of sports betting. As other categories have produced less, sports betting has emerged as an important growth driver for the sports format. And this has happened with most of the country not even legal yet. As more states give the green light to legalize sports gambling, revenues and content opportunities should follow. We will likely reach a point where consolidation comes into play and certain brands and companies overload their content in a way that makes them insufferable to listen to but for every few setbacks there are far greater reasons to be optimistic. In the past 7 years we’ve seen Amazon, Facebook, Apple, and YouTube become big players in sports television. Might FanDuel, DraftKings, BetRivers, Fanatics, Barstool and others do the same in the sports media space? That’s going to be an interesting follow for sure.

Knowing how everything can change in an instant, I take nothing for granted with BSM and BNM. This could all end tomorrow, and if it did, I’d look back on it as the best days of my professional life. I want to keep growing as a professional, while remaining an asset to my current partners, and finding ways to work with new brands and companies in both sports and news media. I’m also enjoying hosting a podcast again, and if you haven’t checked out The Jason Barrett Podcast, the latest episode with Colin Cowherd is a good one to start with.

The future for sports and news media may change but both will remain viable and important. I love that we’ve been able to be a small part of this business each day for the past 7 years, and I hope to make the next 7 years as fulfilling as the past 7. If I’m able to do that, it’ll mean the 20 years I spent in studios were needed to make a nationwide impact from a home office.

So on behalf of our entire team, past and present, thank you for reading the twenty thousand pieces of content we’ve produced since 2015. None of this is possible without an army of BSM/BNM supporters. I hope to see you in Los Angeles this March for the 2023 BSM Summit.

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The Podcast Movement Conference Made a Mistake Rejecting Ben Shapiro

“If this is a conference about podcasting, and you have someone in attendance who excels at it, has a massive following, and their company is supporting your event as a sponsor, why are you treating them like a disease?”

Jason Barrett

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I’ve had the pleasure of attending multiple Podcast Movement Conferences over the years. Those involved in putting the event together do a fantastic job creating an action packed agenda full of accomplished speakers, and the visual displays and access to different brands and industry professionals have always been nothing but positive. It’s why I was disappointed this year when my schedule didn’t allow for me to make the trip to Dallas.

So imagine my surprise late last week when I learned the conference took a stance against Westwood One radio host and co-founder of The Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro

Shapiro’s company was a sponsor of this year’s show, and according to reports, the well known podcaster and radio host wasn’t registered for the event. He made a brief appearance at his company’s booth, shaking hands and taking photos with fans who stopped by to say hi, and his mere presence at the show led to some protesting his involvement on social media.

After learning Shapiro had stopped by, the Podcast Movement Conference posted a series of tweets which said “Hi folks, we owe you an apology before sessions kick off for the day. Yesterday afternoon, Ben Shapiro briefly visited the PM22 expo area near The Daily Wire booth. Though he was not registered or expected, we take full responsibility for the harm done by his presence.”

The conference added, “Those of you who called this “unacceptable” are right. In 9 wonderful years growing and celebrating this medium, PM has made mistakes. The pain caused by this one will always stick with us. We promise that sponsors will be more carefully considered moving forward. No TDW representatives were scheduled to appear on panels, and Shapiro remained in the common space and did not have a badge. If you have questions, we’re here to talk. Thank you for reading, and we hope you’ll continue to join us from here on out.”

A quick search shows that Shapiro has one of the top performing podcasts on the charts. According to Westwood One, it is downloaded over fifteen million times per month. In addition, his radio program is carried on hundreds of radio stations, he has 13 million followers combined between Facebook and Twitter, and his company, The Daily Wire, adds another 5.5 million supporters to the mix. They also showed they were supportive of the conference by making a financial commitment to sponsor a booth.

Having explained all of that I was stunned that the Podcast Movement Conference took this position. Let me be clear, it was a mistake. Their stance has led to a flood of negative attention over the past 72 hours, and it all could’ve easily been avoided. Though their next event is still a year away, given how much attention this story has received, it could have a carry over effect on future sponsorships and attendance. Only time will tell.

As someone who runs an annual conference, albeit much smaller, I know how hard it is to put an event together. What the Podcast Movement organizers put together each year requires a herculean effort, which is why I’m baffled that they picked sides in this situation. The media industry is large and full of people, brands and companies with different views and approaches to business and everyday life. The second you start judging and making decisions based on personal beliefs and/or social media activity, you’re in trouble.

I’ve long maintained that if someone works in the sports media industry and wishes to learn and share information to help improve the business, they’re welcome at our BSM Summit. We make changes to our schedule each year based on what we feel is topical for the attendees but we don’t discriminate, support one brand over another or allow personal views to dictate if someone can or can’t be present.

Case in point, at our March conference, I had a few people privately upset that I asked Craig Carton to speak. Craig’s prior arrest and time served in jail is well documented. First, I have a ton of respect for what Craig has accomplished, and I believe in second chances, but personal views aside, he’s the afternoon host in the nation’s largest market working for WFAN, a top rated sports radio brand. History has shown that he’s damn good and successful, and more than qualified to speak on the subjects we cover at our event. When a few folks expressed their displeasure with my decision I told them ‘If you’re not a fan of Craig, don’t attend that session. If it bothers you beyond that, I understand if you can’t attend the show.’

Quieting the noise gets easier when you focus strictly on the business. Making everyone happy is impossible when you organize an event, but if you allow multiple viewpoints to be present in the room, you end up in a decent place more times than not.

You also have to remember that social media can make things appear worse than they are. Is the issue you’re dealing with being raised by conference partners and supporters who attend the event each year or from someone who’s not in the building and thrives on creating a social media firestorm for the causes they oppose and fight against?

Some may recall that I dealt with a few headaches in 2019 prior to our LA Summit after folks involved with groups that had no interest or desire to attend our show started trying to create a controversy out of nothing. Though it was frustrating playing defense on Christmas night when individuals from the New York Times, Deadspin and WNBA teams started poking holes in our conference’s flyer, I learned an important lesson. As long as you do the right thing and have the support and trust of your friends, family, attendees, and partners, who cares what others think or say who don’t know you and aren’t in the room for your event.

That’s what I don’t understand here. Is Shapiro not one of the most successful podcasters out there? Was his company not a paying partner of the event? If this is a conference about podcasting, and you have someone in attendance who excels at it, has a massive following, and their company is supporting your event as a sponsor, why are you treating them like a disease? Most would roll out a red carpet for someone with Shapiro’s track record of success not publicly condemn them for showing up and sponsoring the show. I know I would. I’d also do the same for someone who’s equally successful and views the world the exact opposite way.

I can’t help but wonder how folks at Westwood One feel about this incident. Don’t they promote and support this conference and include their people in the event? Think they might object to one of their top personalities being treated this way? Furthermore, how about the talk radio format? It’s no secret that most of the programming on news/talk radio stations leans right. A number of top performing podcasts follow a similar path. It’s safe to say that most in the format are going to support Shapiro, and I don’t think that helps the conference with attracting future business and participation.

To be clear, I don’t listen to Ben Shapiro’s podcast or radio show, and I don’t read The Daily Wire. I only point that out because I don’t want anyone to assume that I’m supporting him because of personal interests or a professional relationship. We’ve never spoke or crossed paths. My opinion is based solely on the facts surrounding this situation, nothing else.

That said, I understand Ben has shared opinions that some take offense to and I don’t blame those folks for not wanting to be around him. But there’s a simple solution, don’t go near him or his booth. It’s the same thing I tell people who don’t like a particular radio station’s hosts or a piece of content on our website; if you don’t like it, don’t read or listen to it. The Podcast Movement Conference takes place in a large convention center. There’s more than enough room to keep everyone separated and happy. Last time I checked, there were attendees in the room who stopped by to meet Ben at his booth. Do they not count?

Look, you don’t have to agree with Shapiro, but this is a podcasting business conference, and it’s something he’s done at a higher level than most. That qualifies him to be there. You can’t get in the middle and start determining who is and isn’t allowed in based on personal beliefs or trying to please agenda driven people on social media. Would Podcast Movement tell Joe Rogan, one of the most successful podcasters out there, that he couldn’t attend if people who didn’t like his views on Covid-19 protested? What’s next, not giving out industry awards to stations and individuals who we don’t like or agree with? When does the insanity end?

Here’s the reality, there are likely other sponsors and attendees in the room who have views that some may consider offensive. Our content and advertisers aren’t just supported by good, honest people. There are thousands, if not millions, who listen and support us who are shady, sick, and morally bankrupt. That’s beyond our control. Our job is to inform and entertain, and make people care enough to come back regularly. If we do that well, sponsors will follow. Keep those things happening, and everyone remains satisfied.

Moving forward, the Podcast Movement Conference has to decide if it wants to be open to all or only to some. I root for the conference to do well. I’ve enjoyed attending previous shows and hope to attend future ones. But if they expect to maintain support and enjoy future growth, learning from this situation is important. There’s much more money in staying neutral than alienating one side of the room.

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