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Spence Checketts Learned His Pain Tolerance

“There are still people that will bring it up and I think that will always be a part of my life. Again that’s part of the consequence of making a decision that could be damaging to other people.”

Brian Noe

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To err is human. Not all errors are the same though. Many fall short of threatening to derail a successful career. Spence Checketts made a mistake two years ago that nearly took away the job he loves. However the afternoon drive host on ESPN 700 in Salt Lake City has rebounded strongly from the bad situation.

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He has chosen not to hide from it. Checketts has also done an impressive job of shifting his perspective; he is much more appreciative of the opportunities he enjoys.

Spence’s career path is unique as well. The business isn’t crawling with hosts that were once NBA scouts for three years. One of the most thought-provoking comments below is Spence highlighting a trait in sports talk hosts that is important to succeed. Ironically people in the business rarely mention the same trait as necessary. Spence is an interesting guy with smart views and a redemption story. That’s a recipe for a compelling read. Enjoy.

Brian Noe: Tell me about your career path, Spence. Where did it start for you and how did things unfold to where you are now?

Spence Checketts: I fell into this thing. Growing up my father [Dave Checketts] was an executive in the NBA first with the Jazz and then later he was the CEO at Madison Square Garden for about 12 years. He was the president and GM of the Knicks. Seeing the way the New York media treated my father soured me to the media in general. I was actually raised to believe that the media was the enemy a little bit. I never thought for a second that this would be my career path.

I was working in marketing and advertising for a cluster of radio stations here in Salt Lake City. One of the stations that we sold for — and we did all the branding and marketing for — was the station that had the Jazz as one of their properties. I got pretty friendly with some of the producers and on-air hosts. One of the guys there one day just asked me have you ever thought about a career in radio? I said no, absolutely not. He actually said you have a radio voice and you grew up playing the game and you grew up in the league. I had some relationships from my time — actually I was a scout in the NBA for three years.

I came out here and my plan was to play for Rick Majerus at the U. It’s kind of a left-hand turn, but this will tell you what eventually landed me in radio. Back in the day before you could get online and see who the big time high school players were and who the recruits were — I had no idea before I came out here. Rick’s whole thing with me was come walk on and you can become a scholarship player maybe your sophomore or junior year, but come walk on as a freshman. I came out here and the other freshman point guard was Andre Miller.

BN: Oh gosh.

SC: Yeah, so I joke all the time that Andre Miller made me retire from basketball because that’s when I knew I wasn’t — I thought I was really good up until I played against NBA guys. I had a chance to go to five-star basketball camp for a couple of summers. I remember the first time I played against an NBA guy. Do you remember God Shammgod Wells?

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BN: I do, barely. I remember the name though.

SC: He played for Providence College and in the league. I was matched up with him at basketball camp and I couldn’t get the ball past half court. He picked my pocket three straight times and that was it. I came home from camp all depressed and my dad was like what’s up with you? I said I’m not going to play in the NBA. I realized this as a 16-year-old. Jerry Stackhouse and Rasheed Wallace were at that camp. I thought I was good enough to play college ball so I came out here to play for Rick and then went up against Andre.

Within a month, I was in Majerus’ office and I said hey you got to shoot me straight. I can’t play with this guy. He’s bigger, stronger; he’s better than I am.

To Rick’s credit he was very honest with me. He said look you can really shoot it and you can really pass it, but Andre Miller is my starting point guard. I left the team and didn’t end up playing for Rick for longer than a couple of months. That’s how I got into scouting. Then I started scouting for the Knicks, which I did for about three years on a regional level, but I wasn’t getting paid.

I had to find a job and I decided to get into the advertising and marketing side on radio and TV — and back to the original point — became pretty friendly with the producers. Then one of them just asked me, hey you should give it a try. Just come on my weekend Saturday show. That’s how I got into it. Within a month it just felt natural. It felt like trying on a pair of pants that fit really well the first time I cracked a microphone. I knew that maybe I had found something. Within a month I went from doing their Saturday shows to doing afternoon drive and the Jazz pre, half, and post. That’s how it all started just kind of randomly. I didn’t take any journalism classes in college. I didn’t have a radio background. I just kind of fell into it like that.

BN: Because of your scouting background — if you were running a station and had to scout radio hosts instead, what are the qualities you would look for that you believe would make a great host?

SC: That’s an interesting question. First of all I’m a big fan of presence — not necessarily voice, but presence. I grew up on Mike and the Mad Dog. I loved Dog and I still love him to this day. He does not have a classic radio voice, but he has great presence. Just the way you command your airwaves with your presence even if you don’t have the classic, deep, play-by-play voice or radio broadcaster voice. That to me is number one. There are so many guys out there who even if the content isn’t great they can fool you into thinking it is because of the way they command their space.

I think all of us have a certain level of knowledge, but as far as your cadence and how you deliver that knowledge to the listener is a big piece of it. Being in this business now — this will be my 16th year coming up — if I travel and find the local sports talk radio station and I fire it up to see what’s going on, I can tell within two minutes if they’re doing the work. If they’re preparing, if they show up and crack the mic and they’re ready to be on air.

I take the work very, very seriously. If I’m not prepared one day I just get tremendous anxiety. It’s almost a selfish thing for me to be a little bit more settled in to do the work. I would say presence, work ethic, knowledge, and then simply entertainment. It’s fun after all. You just want a guy with a fun personality as opposed to somebody who takes themselves way too seriously.

BN: Sometimes showing the audience that you aren’t perfect is a huge thing that helps you connect with listeners. The DUI you got — how have you approached that situation on air and has it helped you connect with your audience?

SC: The biggest thing is just not running from it — being authentic about it and being honest and upfront with it. I know there have been guys in my shoes — whether it’s a DUI or something else — that have done everything they could to bury it as far as they can and then just hope every day that nobody ever finds out about it. That’s not the reality of how our business works now. We have the internet. People are going to be able to find out. Maybe 20 years ago you could try to bury it, but that’s not how it works. I think trying to hide from it is entirely disingenuous. Just acknowledge it, be upfront about it, and be honest about it.

Utah sports radio host Spence Checketts resigns from The Zone after DUI arrest

It was a really tough situation. There are people that will always brand me as the guy who got the DUI. I will never be able to change their mind as far as who I am. That’s my reality. That’s what I have to live with and that’s what happens when you make mistakes. It’s like my mom used to say, consequences are a bitch. But they’re part of it, that was part of the drill.

My whole thing throughout the course of coming back to being an on-air personality, right away in the first meeting I had with my GM, who has become a great friend and a real mentor, we talked about it and he actually said “Well, how do you want to handle this? Should we not even acknowledge it?”

I said no no no, I’m going to address it in my very first segment back on air. I’m going to talk about it. I’m going to be honest and authentic about it and I’m going to be real about it.

The cool thing about it is, I did a piece with the local paper here where we talked all about it. I can’t even tell you how many people have responded and have said ‘Hey just so you know, last weekend I was out and I had some drinks. I had my car with me. Instead of getting behind the wheel, I Ubered home and got my car the next day because I read your story.” That’s been the coolest thing about all of this. Whenever I hear from somebody who elected not to drive drunk or got caught at some point and can relate to the story and is thankful for the fact that I did stick it out and I did decide to come back.

For a minute, dude, I didn’t know that this was going to be my life anymore. I wasn’t sure if I was going to continue to do this because of how many bullets I took publicly as a result of a real unfortunate situation. I think whether it’s me or anybody else when it comes to a slip-up or something that’s happened in life, it shows the audience that you’re human. It hopefully inspires them to be a little bit better if you show that you can bounce back from your mistakes.

I’m a firm believer that things don’t happen to you, they happen for you. That’s how I’ve chosen to approach it. It’s been coming up — it’ll be two years since everything went down. There’s been a good amount of space that has taken place. There are still people that will bring it up and I think that will always be a part of my life. Again that’s part of the consequence of making a decision that could be damaging to other people.

BN: What all was involved in the timeline starting with the DUI and then coming back on the air?

SC: I was upfront with my employer. As soon as it happened I called him just to let him know, like hey here’s the situation. They suspended me initially. I went up to a inpatient rehabilitation facility for 45 days. While I was up there they deliberated and made the decision that it wasn’t in their best interest to bring me back. I can’t comment as to why. That’s a conversation you’d have to have with them.

I was really bummed out but I understood. I get it. No part of me was ever angry at them. It was a station that I really loved and I helped build. They’re all still friends of mine over there. I talked to them quite a bit. 

My whole thing was to own the entire pie and not be upset that I didn’t get my old show back, or my old job back, and understand this is part of the deal. I was left to wonder what was next. There was probably a five- or six-month period where I really thought that it may be over. I heard from a lot of people in the industry. I remember I had a conversation with Ryan Hatch. I don’t know if you know Ryan at all.

BN: Yeah.

SC: So Ryan was a guy here who I worked with a little bit. He was a personality here in the market. I really like Ryan. I really respect Ryan. I consider him a good friend. I spoke to Jason Barrett too. Jason’s been great throughout this entire thing and a real supporter of mine. Ryan’s a guy who saw some talent in me early on. I reached out to him and Ryan said to me, “Look, you have to acknowledge the possibility that this may be over for you.”

BN: Wow!

SC: He was the first person who said that to me. I went, “Oh holy smokes!” I started recalibrating a little bit like what am I going to do here? What’s next for me? Not to sound arrogant, but I feel like I’ve been if not thee guy here, one of the main two or three guys for 13, 14 years. So I just figured if I could put a little time in between the incident and continue to make sure I’m keeping my backyard clean that the phone would start ringing. Eventually it did, Brian, but for a while it didn’t. When that phone is not ringing you go “holy smokes!” It took a year and a half for me to get back on air.

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I thought about moving. I spoke to a station in Denver. I was in advanced talks with a station in Atlanta and really thought that was going to be my next destination before ESPN 700 here called, which ironically enough was my old station before I went and worked with the Jazz station [1280 The Zone] for seven years.

The opportunity presented itself. I wasn’t necessarily looking to move, but I was open to it. It was just a matter of learning about my pain tolerance and kind of waiting it out. Continuing just to make sure that I’m doing the things that I need to be doing so when that phone did ring I can answer the questions that I needed to answer in order to approach this next project with everything I possibly have. But it took a year and a half. It was hard. I’m not going to lie. It was really hard and I thought it could be over.

BN: Man, I know that was tough. Has the whole situation of your career possibly ending made you hungrier each day and made your drive a little bit more intense?

SC: Yeah, and that’s a good question. I’ll tell you what it did is it took away every bit of entitlement that I may have had. Instead of approaching this as “I deserve this job. I worked hard at it and this is something that I deserve,” it’s like no, “I’m extremely lucky to have this job.” I know that every single day, regardless of the real estate you carve out for yourself in a market, it can go away like that. For some people when it goes away, it never comes back. 

I’ve always been a driven person. I’ve never been afraid of work. That’s how I was raised, but I learned that you can have talent, you can be driven, you can work hard, and it can still go away if you don’t keep everything in line. I always said if I get another opportunity there’s definitely some things I’m going to do differently, but the main thing is no entitlement and just realize how blessed I am to be in this spot.

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I probably needed it taken away from me for a while to learn that. As I look back on everything my new favorite word in life is serendipitous. It’s so serendipitous how it all went down. There was obviously a clear reason for why it went down. Again I probably needed it to be taken away for a while to approach it with the fervor and passion that I try to on a daily basis.

BSM Writers

In Defense Of Colin Cowherd

“How did we get to this place where there are sites and Twitter accounts going through The Herd with a fine-toothed comb to create content out of ‘oh my god, look at this!’?”

Demetri Ravanos

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I don’t understand what it is about Colin Cowherd that gets under some people’s skin to the point that they feel everything the guy says is worth being mocked. I don’t always agree with a lot of his opinions myself, but rarely do I hear one of his takes and think I need to build content around how stupid the guy is.

Cowherd has certainly had his share of misses. There were some highlights to his constant harping on Baker Mayfield but personally, I thought the bit got boring quickly and that the host was only shooting about 25% on those segments.

Cowherd has said some objectionable things. I thought Danny O’Neil was dead on in pointing out that the FOX Sports Radio host sounded like LIV Golf’s PR department last month. It doesn’t matter if he claims he used the wrong words or if his language was clunky, he deserved all of the criticism he got in 2015 when he said that baseball couldn’t be that hard of a sport to understand because a third of the league is from the Dominican Republic.

Those missteps and eyebrow-raising moments have never been the majority of his content though. How did we get to this place where there are sites and Twitter accounts going through The Herd with a fine-toothed comb to create content out of “oh my god, look at this!”?

A few years ago, Dan Le Batard said something to the effect of the best thing he can say about Colin Cowherd is that he is never boring and if you are not in this business, you do not get what a compliment that is.

That’s the truth, man. It is so hard to talk into the ether for three hours and keep people engaged, but Cowherd finds a way to do it with consistency.

The creativity that requires is what has created a really strange environment where you have sites trying to pass off pointing and laughing at Cowherd as content. This jumped out to me with a piece that Awful Announcing published on Thursday about Cowherd’s take that Aaron Rodgers needs a wife.

Look, I don’t think every single one of Cowherd’s analogies or societal observations is dead on, but to point this one out as absurd is, frankly, absurd!

This isn’t Cowherd saying that John Wall coming out and doing the Dougie is proof that he is a loser. This isn’t him saying that adults in backward hats look like doofuses (although, to be fair to Colin, where is the lie in that one?).

“Behind every successful man is a strong woman” is a take as old as success itself. It may not be a particularly original observation, but it hardly deserves the scrutiny of a 450-word think piece.

On top of that, he is right about Aaron Rodgers. The guy has zero personality and is merely trying on quirks to hold our attention. Saying that the league MVP would benefit from someone in his life holding a mirror up to him and pointing that out is hardly controversial.

Colin Cowherd is brash. He has strong opinions. He will acknowledge when there is a scoreboard or a record to show that he got a game or record pick wrong, but he will rarely say his opinion about a person or situation is wrong. That can piss people off. I get it.

You know that Twitter account Funhouse? The handle is @BackAftaThis?

It was created to spotlight the truly insane moments Mike Francesa delivered on air. There was a time when the standard was ‘The Sports Pop’e giving the proverbial finger to a recently deceased Stan Lee, falling asleep on air, or vehemently denying that a microphone captured his fart.

Now the feed is turning to “Hey Colin Cowherd doesn’t take phone calls!”. Whatever the motivation is for turning on Cowherd like that, it really shows a dip in the ability to entertain. How is it even content to point out that Colin Cowherd doesn’t indulge in the single most boring part of sports radio?

I will be the first to admit that I am not the world’s biggest fan of The Herd. Solo hosts will almost never be my thing. No matter their energy level, a single person talking for a 10-12 minute stretch feels more like a lecture than entertainment to me. I got scolded enough as a kid by parents and teachers.

School is a good analogy here because that is sort of what this feels like. The self-appointed cool kids identified their target long ago and are going to mock him for anything he does. It doesn’t matter if they carry lunch boxes too, Colin looks like a baby because he has a lunch box.

Colin Cowherd doesn’t need me to defend him. He can point to his FOX paycheck, his followers, or the backing for The Volume as evidence that he is doing something right. I am merely doing what these sites think they are doing when Colin is in their crosshairs – pointing out a lame excuse for content that has no real value.

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BSM Writers

Even After Radio Hall of Fame Honor, Suzyn Waldman Looks Forward

WFAN recently celebrated its 35th anniversary, but that’s not something that Waldman spends too much time reflecting on.

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Yankees radio broadcaster Suzyn Waldman was at Citi Field on July 26th getting ready to broadcast a Subway Series game between the Yankees and Mets. A day earlier, Waldman was elected to the Radio Hall of Fame and sometimes that type of attention can, admittedly, make her feel a bit uncomfortable.

“At first, I was really embarrassed because I’m not good at this,” said Waldman. “I don’t take compliments well and I don’t take awards well. I just don’t. The first time it got to me…that I actually thought it was pretty cool, there were two little boys at Citi Field…

Those two little boys, with photos of Waldman in hand, saw her on the field and asked her a question.

“They asked me to sign “Suzyn Waldman Radio Hall of Fame 2022” and I did,” said Waldman.  “I just smiled and then more little boys asked me to do that.”  

Waldman, along with “Broadway” Bill Lee, Carol Miller, Chris “Mad Dog” Russo, Ellen K, Jeff Smulyan, Lon Helton, Marv Dyson, and Walt “Baby” Love, make up the Class of 2022 for the Radio Hall of Fame and will be inducted at a ceremony on November 1st at the Radisson Blu Aqua Hotel in Chicago.

Waldman, born in the Boston suburb of Newton, Massachusetts, was the first voice heard on WFAN in New York when the station launched on July 1st, 1987. She started as an update anchor before becoming a beat reporter for the Yankees and Knicks and the co-host of WFAN’s
mid-day talk show. In the mid 1990s, Waldman did some television play-by-play for Yankees games on WPIX and in 2002 she became the clubhouse reporter for Yankees telecasts when the YES Network launched.

This is Waldman’s 36th season covering the Yankees and her 18th in the radio booth, a run that started in 2005 when she became the first female full-time Major League Baseball broadcaster.

She decided to take a look at the names that are currently in the Hall of Fame, specifically individuals that she will forever be listed next to.

“Some of the W’s are Orson Wells and Walter Winchell…people that changed the industry,” said Waldman. “I get a little embarrassed…I’m not good at this but I’m really happy.”

Waldman has also changed the industry.

She may have smiled when those two little boys asked her to sign those photos, but Waldman can also take a lot of pride in the fact that she has been a trailblazer in the broadcasting business and an inspiration to a lot of young girls who aspire, not only to be sportscasters but those who want to have a career in broadcasting.

Like the young woman who just started working at a New York television station who approached Waldman at the Subway Series and just wanted to meet her.

“She stopped me and was shaking,” said Waldman. “The greatest thing is that all of these young women that are out there.”

Waldman pointed out that there are seven women that she can think of off the top of her head that are currently doing minor league baseball play-by-play and that there have been young female sports writers that have come up to her to share their stories about how she inspired them.

For many years, young boys were inspired to be sportscasters by watching and listening to the likes of Marv Albert, Al Michaels, Vin Scully, Bob Costas, and Joe Buck but now there are female sportscasters, like Waldman, who have broken down barriers and are giving young girls a good reason to follow their dreams.

“When I’ve met them, they’ve said to me I was in my car with my Mom and Dad when I was a very little girl and they were listening to Yankee games and there you were,” said Waldman. “These young women never knew this was something that they couldn’t do because I was there and we’re in the third generation of that now. It’s taken longer than I thought.”

There have certainly been some challenges along the way in terms of women getting opportunities in sports broadcasting.

Waldman thinks back to 1994 when she became the first woman to do a national television baseball broadcast when she did a game for The Baseball Network. With that milestone came a ton of interviews that she had to do with media outlets around the country including Philadelphia.

It was during an interview with a former Philadelphia Eagle on a radio talk show when Waldman received a unique backhanded compliment that she will always remember.

“I’ve listened to you a lot and I don’t like you,” Waldman recalls the former Eagle said. “I don’t like women in sports…I don’t like to listen to you but I was watching the game with my 8-year-old daughter and she was watching and I looked at her and thought this is something she’s never going to know that she cannot do because there you are.”

Throughout her career, Waldman has experienced the highest of highs in broadcasting but has also been on the receiving end of insults and cruel intentions from people who then tend to have a short memory.

And many of these people were co-workers.

“First people laugh at you, then they make your life miserable and then they go ‘oh yeah that’s the way it is’ like it’s always been like that but it’s not always been like this,” said Waldman. 

It hasn’t always been easy for women in broadcasting and as Waldman — along with many others — can attest to nothing is perfect today. But it’s mind-boggling to think about what Waldman had to endure when WFAN went on the air in 1987.

She remembers how badly she was treated by some of her colleagues.

“I think about those first terrible days at ‘FAN,” said Waldman. “I had been in theatre all my life and it was either you get the part or you don’t. They either like you or they don’t.  You don’t have people at your own station backstabbing you and people at your own station changing your tapes to make you look like an idiot.”

There was also this feeling that some players were not all that comfortable with Waldman being in the clubhouse and locker room. That was nothing compared to some of the other nonsense that Waldman had to endure.

“The stuff with players is very overblown,” said Waldman. “It’s much worse when you know that somebody out there is trying to kill you because you have a Boston accent and you’re trying to talk about the New York Yankees. That’s worse and it’s also worse when the people
that you work with don’t talk to you and think that you’re a joke and the people at your own station put you down for years and years and years.”

While all of this was happening, Waldman had one very important person in her corner: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner, who passed away in 2010.

The two had a special relationship and he certainly would have relished the moment when Suzyn was elected to the Hall of Fame.

“I think about George Steinbrenner a lot,” said Waldman. “This is something that when I heard that…I remember thinking George would be so proud because he wanted this since ’88.  I just wish he were here.” 

Waldman certainly endeared herself to “The Boss” with her reporting but she also was the driving force behind the reconciliation of Steinbrenner and Yankees Hall of Fame catcher Yogi Berra. George had fired Yogi as Yankees manager 16 games into the 1985 season and the news was delivered to Berra, not by George, but by Steinbrenner advisor Clyde King.

Yogi vowed never to step foot into Yankee Stadium again, but a grudge that lasted almost 14 years ended in 1999 when Waldman facilitated a reunion between the two at the Yogi Berra Museum in New Jersey.

“I’m hoping that my thank you to him was the George and Yogi thing because I know he wanted that very badly,” said Waldman.

“Whatever I did to prove to him that I was serious about this…this is in ’87 and ’88…In 1988, I remember him saying to me ‘Waldman, one of these days I’m going to make a statement about women in sports.  You’re it and I hope you can take it’ (the criticism). He knew what was coming.  I didn’t know. But there was always George who said ‘if you can take it, you’re going to make it’.”

And made it she did.

And she has outlasted every single person on the original WFAN roster.

“I’m keenly aware that I was the first person they tried to fire and I’m the only one left which I think is hysterical actually that I outlived everybody,” said Waldman.

WFAN recently celebrated its 35th anniversary, but that’s not something that Waldman spends too much time reflecting on.

“I don’t think about it at all because once you start looking back, you’re not going forward,” said Waldman. 

Waldman does think about covering the 1989 World Series between the A’s and Giants and her reporting on the earthquake that was a defining moment in her career. She has always been a great reporter and a storyteller, but that’s not how her WFAN career began. She started as an update anchor and she knew that if she was going to have an impact on how WFAN was going to evolve, it was not going to be reading the news…it was going to be going out in the field and reporting the news.

“I was doing updates which I despised and wasn’t very good at,” said Waldman.

She went to the program director at the time and talked about how WFAN had newspaper writers covering the local teams for the station and that it would be a better idea for her to go out and cover games and press conferences.

“Give me a tape recorder and let me go,” is what Waldman told the program director. “I was the first electronic beat writer.  That’s how that started and they said ‘oh, this works’. The writers knew all of a sudden ‘uh oh she can put something on the air at 2 o’clock in the morning and I can’t’.”  

And the rest is history. Radio Hall of Fame history.

But along the way, there was never that moment where she felt that everything was going to be okay.

Because it can all disappear in a New York minute.

“I’ve never had that moment,” said Waldman. “I see things going backward in a lot of ways for women.  I’m very driven and I’m very aware that it can all be taken away in two seconds if some guy says that’s enough.” 

During her storied career, Waldman has covered five Yankees World Series championships and there’s certainly the hope that they can contend for another title this year. She loves her job and the impact that she continues to make on young girls who now have that dream to be the next Suzyn Waldman.

But, is there something in the business that she still hopes to accomplish?

“This is a big world,” said Waldman. “There’s always something to do. Right now I like this a lot and there’s still more to do. There are more little girls…somewhere there’s a little girl out there who is talking into a tape recorder or whatever they use now and her father is telling her or someone is telling her you can’t do that you’re a little girl. That hasn’t stopped. Somewhere out there there’s somebody that needs to hear a female voice on Yankees radio.”

To steal the spirit of a line from Yankees play-by-play voice John Sterling, Suzyn Waldman’s longtime friend, and broadcast partner…“that’s a Radio Hall of Fame career, Suzyn!”

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BSM Writers

No Winners in Pittsburgh vs Cleveland Radio War of Words

“As talk radio hosts, we often try to hold the moral high ground and if you’re going to hold that position, I can’t help but feel integrity has to outweigh popularity. “

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For nearly 18 months, we’ve known the NFL would eventually have to confront the Deshaun Watson saga in an on-the-field manner, and that day came Monday. After his March trade to the Browns, we also could more than likely deduce another item: Cleveland radio hosts would feel one way, and Pittsburgh hosts would feel another.

If you’re not in tune to the “rivalry” between the two cities, that’s understandable. Both are former industrial cities looking for an identity in a post-industrial Midwest. Each thinks the other is a horrible place to live, with no real reasoning other than “at least we’re not them”. Of course, the folks in Pittsburgh point to six Super Bowl victories as reason for superiority.

I wasn’t entirely sure what to expect when news started to leak that a Watson decision would come down Monday. I was sure, however, that anyone who decided to focus on what the NFL’s decision would mean for Watson and the Browns on the field was in a no-win situation. As a former host on a Cleveland Browns radio affiliate, I always found the situation difficult to talk about. Balancing the very serious allegations with what it means for Watson, the Browns, and the NFL always felt like a tight-rope walk destined for failure.

So I felt for 92.3 The Fan’s Ken Carman and Anthony Lima Monday morning, knowing they were in a delicate spot. They seemed to allude to similar feelings. “You’re putting me in an awkward situation here,” Carman told a caller after that caller chanted “Super Bowl! Super Browns!” moments after the suspension length was announced.

Naturally, 93.7 The Fan’s Andrew Fillipponi happened to turn on the radio just as that call happened. A nearly week-long war of words ensued between the two Audacy-owned stations.

Fillipponi used the opportunity to slam Cleveland callers and used it as justification to say the NFL was clearly in the wrong. Carman and Lima pointed out Fillipponi had tweeted three days earlier about how much love the city of Pittsburgh had for Ben Roethlisberger, a player with past sexual assault allegations in his own right.

Later in the week, the Cleveland duo defended fans from criticism they viewed as unfair from the national media. In response, Dorin Dickerson and Adam Crowley of the Pittsburgh morning show criticized Carman and Lima for taking that stance.

Keeping up?

As an impartial observer, there’s one main takeaway I couldn’t shake. Both sides are wrong. Both sides are right. No one left the week looking good.

Let’s pretend the Pittsburgh Steelers had traded for Deshaun Watson on March 19th, and not the Browns. Can you envision a scenario where Cleveland radio hosts would defend the NFL for the “fairness” of the investigation and disciplinary process if he was only suspended for six games? Of course, you can’t, because that would be preposterous. At the same time, would Fillipponi, Dickerson, and other Pittsburgh hosts be criticizing their fans for wanting Watson’s autograph? Of course, you can’t, because that would be preposterous.

When you’re discussing “my team versus your team” or “my coach versus your coach” etc…, it’s ok to throw ration and logic to the side for the sake of entertaining radio. But when you’re dealing with an incredibly serious matter, in this case, an investigation into whether an NFL quarterback is a serial sexual predator, I don’t believe there’s room to throw ration and logic to the wind. The criticism of Carman and Lima from the Pittsburgh station is fair and frankly warranted. They tried their best, in my opinion, to be sensitive to a topic that warranted it, but fell short.

On the flip side, Carman and Lima are correct. Ben Roethlisberger was credibly accused of sexual assault. Twice. And their criticism of Fillipponi and Steelers fans is valid and frankly warranted.

You will often hear me say “it can be both” because so often today people try to make every situation black and white. In reality, there’s an awful lot of gray in our world. But, in this case, it can’t be both. It can’t be Deshaun Watson, and Browns fans by proxy, are horrible, awful, no good, downright rotten people, and Ben Roethlisberger is a beloved figure.

Pot, meet kettle.

I don’t know what Andrew Fillipponi said about Ben Roethlisberger’s sexual assault allegations in 2010. And if I’m wrong, I’ll be the first to admit it, but I’m guessing he sounded much more like Carman and Lima did this week, rather than the person criticizing hosts in another market for their lack of moral fiber. Judging by the tweet Carman and Lima used to point out Fillipponi’s hypocrisy, I have a hard time believing the Pittsburgh host had strong outrage about the Steelers bringing back the franchise QB.

Real courage comes from saying things your listeners might find unpopular. It’s also where real connections with your listeners are built. At the current time in our hyper-polarized climate, having the ability to say something someone might disagree with is a lost art. But it’s also the key to keeping credibility and building a reputation that you’ll say whatever you truly believe that endears you to your audience.

And in this case, on a day the NFL announced they now employ a player who — in the league’s view — is a serial sexual assaulter, to hear hosts describe a six-game suspension as “reasonable” felt unreasonable. As talk radio hosts, we often try to hold the moral high ground and if you’re going to hold that position, I can’t help but feel integrity has to outweigh popularity.

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