To the delight of many, golf returned to live action this past Sunday on NBC, complete with a phone call from the President. If you’ve ever wondered how you can make that happen, I’ve got six words for you:
You’re gonna need a bigger boat.
Reeling in a big fish like a sitting president involves the same steps it takes to land the smaller fare. One doesn’t become a master by doing a thousand different things one time, you become a master by doing a few things a thousand times.
- Find the gatekeeper
- Present a win-win
- Be relentless
First, identify and contact the gatekeeper. When dealing with a guest this big, it’s highly unlikely you’ll be able to communicate directly with the subject. Fortunately, there’s always at least one person that handles booking requests for your target. In a lot of cases, that means hitting up a publicist or public relations manager, but not always. Occasionally that person is an agent or even a loved one. Regardless of their title, finding the person that not only has the ear of the guest, but can also make the interview happen when the time comes is crucial.
If you can’t identify the gatekeeper right away, reach out to someone you can find connected to the subject and work your way up from there. The agent is a logical place to start, but not the only one.
Does the person have a charitable foundation? What about a social media manager? When you do connect with someone, keep an eye on any emails from your contact. Is there someone else on the chain they’re communicating with after they hear from you? If so, add that person on all your communications (and be sure to save their contact information for the future as well). The less distance you put between you and the guest, the better, so keep pushing to get as close as you can.
Don’t forget to leverage your relationships as much as possible. Who do you know in the business that might have booked that guest before? Would they be willing to share a contact person with you? Perhaps you could make a trade with them so the transaction wouldn’t be so one-sided?
Also, think about your host and their relationships. Do they have a friendship with the subject or someone close to them? If so, try and use that to your advantage. A personal text or email from a host to a subject cuts through all the middlemen and may cause someone who usually doesn’t grant interviews to be a little more generous with their time. Even if you or your host don’t have any ties to the subject, if you’re booking for a big name/show be sure to mention that when you reach out.
Second, present the request as an opportunity not only for your show, but also for the interviewee as well. Your show is giving this person a platform to get a message out to people. The president knew the golf exhibition would draw a large audience, and he wanted to make sure people heard him talk about the return of sports and his coronavirus response.
If you’re after a politician, is it campaign season? Is there a charity event you can plug while the guest is on? What about a new book or movie coming out soon? Be sure to mention you’d be willing to discuss that kind of project on the air when you make your request. Don’t think of the interview as something that’s simply a favor to the show – think of it as something good for both sides. Publicists and brand managers are always trying to maximize the audience for their client, so be sure to throw in a mention about the size of your audience, podcast downloads, etc. at some point – especially
if they happen to when they turn you down at first.
Make no mistake, they will turn you down at first. As the gatekeeper for an A-list guest, 90 percent of their job is saying, “no” to people, just as 90% of your job as producer/booker is to hear the word, “no.” So, at a minimum, you’ve got to overcome 180% of “no.”
Do. Not. Give. Up.
Sometimes regardless of how well you follow the other steps, sheer persistence alone gets the job done. Be sure to hold the person accountable for what they say when they turn you down. If they give you something like, “wish we could do it but we’re slammed right now,” wait a week and try again. If they say, “we’ll get you next time,” make sure you hit them up the next time their client is in the news. I always use the email chain with their quote in it when following up. That way, you hold them responsible for their words and help them remember who you were.
Guest booking can be a tedious exercise, but one that is vital to the success of a program. Rejection is inevitable for even the most successful among us, and it’s easy to get discouraged. Like that lone pure golf shot of the day, however, the feeling of locking in a big name guest keeps us, and the audience, coming back for more.
Being Wrong On-Air Isn’t A Bad Thing
…if you feel yourself getting uncomfortable over the fact that you were wrong, stop to realize that’s your pride talking. Your ego. And if people call you out for being wrong, it’s actually a good sign.
In the press conference after the Warriors won their fourth NBA title in eight years, Steph Curry referenced a very specific gesture from a very specific episode of Get Up that aired in August 2021.
“Clearly remember some experts and talking heads putting up the big zero,” Curry said, then holding up a hollowed fist to one eye, looking through it as if it were a telescope.
“How many championships we would have going forward because of everything we went through.”
Yep, Kendrick Perkins and Domonique Foxworth each predicted the Warriors wouldn’t win a single title over the course of the four-year extension Curry had just signed. The Warriors won the NBA title and guess what? Curry gets to gloat.
The funny part to me was the people who felt Perkins or Foxworth should be mad or embarrassed. Why? Because they were wrong?
That’s part of the game. If you’re a host or analyst who is never wrong in a prediction, it’s more likely that you’re excruciatingly boring than exceedingly smart. Being wrong is not necessarily fun, but it’s not a bad thing in this business.
You shouldn’t try to be wrong, but you shouldn’t be afraid of it, either. And if you are wrong, own it. Hold your L as I’ve heard the kids say. Don’t try to minimize it or explain it or try to point out how many other people are wrong, too. Do what Kendrick Perkins did on Get Up the day after the Warriors won the title.
“When they go on to win it, guess what?” He said, sitting next to Mike Greenberg. “You have to eat that.”
Do not do what Perkins did later that morning on First Take.
Perkins: “I come on here and it’s cool, right? Y’all can pull up Perk receipts and things to that nature. And then you give other people a pass like J-Will.”
Jason Williams: “I don’t get passes on this show.”
Perkins: “You had to, you had a receipt, too, because me and you both picked the Memphis Grizzlies to beat the Golden State Warriors, but I’m OK with that. I’m OK with that. Go ahead Stephen A. I know you’re about to have fun and do your thing. Go ahead.”
Stephen A. Smith: “First of all, I’m going to get serious for a second with the both of you, especially you, Perk, and I want to tell you something right now. Let me throw myself on Front Street, we can sit up there and make fun of me. You know how many damn Finals predictions I got wrong? I don’t give a damn. I mean, I got a whole bunch of them wrong. Ain’t no reason to come on the air and defend yourself. Perk, listen man. You were wrong. And we making fun, and Steph Curry making fun of you. You laugh at that my brother. He got you today. That’s all. He got you today.”
It’s absolutely great advice, and if you feel yourself getting uncomfortable over the fact that you were wrong, stop to realize that’s your pride talking. Your ego. And if people call you out for being wrong, it’s actually a good sign. It means they’re not just listening, but holding on to what you say. You matter. Don’t ruin that by getting defensive and testy.
WORTH EVERY PENNY
I did a double-take when I saw Chris Russo’s list of the greatest QB-TE combinations ever on Wednesday and this was before I ever got to Tom Brady-to-Rob Gronkowski listed at No. 5. It was actually No. 4 that stopped me cold: Starr-Kramer.
My first thought: Jerry Kramer didn’t play tight end.
My second thought: I must be unaware of this really good tight end from the Lombardi-era Packers.
After further review, I don’t think that’s necessarily true, either. Ron Kramer did play for the Lombardi-era Packers, and he was a good player. He caught 14 scoring passes in a three-year stretch where he really mattered, but he failed to catch a single touchdown pass in six of the 10 NFL seasons he played. He was named first-team All-Pro once and finished his career with 229 receptions.
Now this is not the only reason that this is an absolutely terrible list. It is the most egregious, however. Bart Starr and Kramer are not among the 25 top QB-TE combinations in NFL history let alone the top five. And if you’re to believe Russo’s list, eighty percent of the top tandems played in the NFL in the 30-year window from 1958 to 1987 with only one tandem from the past 30 years meriting inclusion when this is the era in which tight end production has steadily climbed.
Then I found out that Russo is making $10,000 per appearance on “First Take.”
My first thought: You don’t have to pay that much to get a 60-something white guy to grossly exaggerate how great stuff used to be.
My second thought: That might be the best $10,000 ESPN has ever spent.
Once a week, Russo comes on and draws a reaction out of a younger demographic by playing a good-natured version of Dana Carvey’s Grumpy Old Man. Russo groans to JJ Redick about the lack of fundamental basketball skills in today’s game or he proclaims the majesty of a tight end-quarterback pairing that was among the top five in its decade, but doesn’t sniff the top five of all-time.
And guess what? It works. Redick rolls his eyes, asks Russo which game he’s watching, and on Wednesday he got me to spend a good 25 minutes looking up statistics for some Packers tight end I’d never heard of. Not satisfied with that, I then moved on to determine Russo’s biggest omission from the list, which I’ve concluded is Philip Rivers and Antonio Gates, who connected for 89 touchdowns over 15 seasons, which is only 73 more touchdowns than Kramer scored in his career. John Elway and Shannon Sharpe should be on there, too.
Money Isn’t The Key Reason Why Sellers Sell Sports Radio
I started selling sports radio because I enjoyed working with clients who loved sports, our station, and wanted to reach fans with our commercials and promotions.
A radio salesperson’s value being purely tied to money is overrated to me. Our managers all believe that our main motivation for selling radio is to make more money. They see no problem in asking us to sell more in various ways because it increases our paycheck. We are offered more money to sell digital, NTR, to sell another station in the cluster, weekend remotes, new direct business, or via the phone in 8 hours.
But is that why you sell sports radio?
In 2022, the Top 10 highest paying sales jobs are all in technology. Not a media company among them. You could argue that if it were all about making money, we should quit and work in tech. Famous bank robber Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed twenty banks over twenty years. He reportedly said,” that’s where the money is”. Sutton is the classic example of a person who wanted what money could provide and was willing to do whatever it took to get it, BUT he also admitted he liked robbing banks and felt alive. So, Sutton didn’t do it just for the money.
A salesperson’s relationship with money and prestige is also at the center of the play Death of a Salesman. Willy Loman is an aging and failing salesman who decides he is worth more dead than alive and kills himself in an auto accident giving his family the death benefit from his life insurance policy. Loman wasn’t working for the money. He wanted the prestige of what money could buy for himself and his family.
Recently, I met a woman who spent twelve years selling radio from 1999-2011. I asked her why she left her senior sales job. She said she didn’t like the changes in the industry. Consolidation was at its peak, and most salespeople were asked to do more with less help. She described her radio sales job as one with “golden handcuffs”. The station paid her too much money to quit even though she hated the job. She finally quit. The job wasn’t worth the money to her.
I started selling sports radio because I enjoyed working with clients who loved sports, our station, and wanted to reach fans with our commercials and promotions. I never wanted to sell anything else and specifically enjoyed selling programming centered around reaching fans of Boise State University football. That’s it. Very similar to what Mark Glynn and his KJR staff experience when selling Kraken hockey and Huskies football.
I never thought selling sports radio was the best way to make money. I just enjoyed the way I could make money. I focused on the process and what I enjoyed about the position—the freedom to come and go and set my schedule for the most part. I concentrated on annual contracts and clients who wanted to run radio commercials over the air to get more traffic and build their brand.
Most of my clients were local direct and listened to the station. Some other sales initiatives had steep learning curves, were one-day events or contracted out shaky support staff. In other words, the money didn’t motivate me enough. How I spent my time was more important.
So, if you are in management, maybe consider why your sales staff is working at the station. Because to me, they’d be robbing banks if it were all about making lots of money.
Media Noise: BSM Podcast Network Round Table
Demetri Ravanos welcomes the two newest members of the BSM Podcast Network to the show. Brady Farkas and Stephen Strom join for a roundtable discussion that includes the new media, Sage Steele and Roger Goodell telling Congress that Dave Portnoy isn’t banned from NFL events.