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Why Do Some Advertisers Believe In Podcasts More Than Radio?

“A lot of the podcasts I’ve found, people typically come for the people, for the hosts, not because ‘oh they’re talking about this, I want to hear it’ whereas with sports radio there is definitely more of that.”

Demetri Ravanos

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I am not a guy that has stern opinions on the world of fashion. I know what I like and that is really where my eye kind of stops.

One company that I have discovered in recent years is Homefield Apparel. If you are a college football fan, you can’t do much better for vintage designs and comfortable hoodies and t-shirts. My wardrobe is stacked with their stuff, even some for teams I have no strong feeling for. Look, below is everything I own from the company laid out on my bedroom floor.

Homefield would not have been something I even knew about if it weren’t for me devotion to college football podcasts, particularly The Shutdown Fullcast and Split Zone Duo. The hosts were loyal customers of Homefield and Homefield was a loyal advertiser on both shows.

In fact, those podcast sponsorships are a huge part of the story of the company’s growth and success. CEO Connor Hitchcock told me they are partnerships his company could not survive without.

“They do things really well,” he says of The Shutdown Fullcast. “Yeah, they joke about audio and all of that, but they put a lot of time into what they do and they created a community of general college football, right? I mean it is a community and it is strong and we see that time and time again.”

That made me wonder about the advertising strategy of Homefield and companies like it, companies that are all over digital shows, but rarely if ever heard on terrestrial radio. What is the aversion those brands have to sports radio?

It seems like if you are looking for an audience with a deep connection to the person they are listening to and loves sports the way a brand like Homefield needs its customers to, sports radio would be an ideal space to spend money.

Connor says the answer lies in the dedication of the audience. Sports radio listeners are loyal to their teams. They might be loyal to their station. That doesn’t help Homefield the way a podcaster’s connection to his or her audience does.

“A lot of the podcasts I’ve found, people typically come for the people, for the hosts, not because ‘oh they’re talking about this, I want to hear it’ whereas with sports radio there is definitely more of that.”

Homefield is based in Indianapolis. Hitchcock uses the local sports talk landscape as an example, saying that if you want to listen to sports radio and you’re in that city, you’re going to listen to Dan Dakich no matter how you feel about the guy. Advertising to an audience like that isn’t part of what has made Homefield a success.

No photo description available.

“For us, you have to walk that line really carefully, because if you see that connection [between an audience and a podcaster], you’re like ‘Cool. If they advocate for us, people will feel that connection to us.’ You don’t want to manipulate a relationship so people buy more from you. That’s not what we are.

“However, there is a deeper connection. So when they feel more connected to podcast hosts, they know if they buy from the companies that are advertising there, they are helping those people do what they want to do.”

I asked Connor if the issue was one of demographic. The median age of any podcast’s listeners will almost certainly be lower than the age of the average sports radio listener. Are younger people more into what Homefield is doing?

He says there is a difference in the audience, but it isn’t in the demographics. It is the psychographics.

“Yeah, and again it may not be age for us. It may be more of a connection,” he says and offers an example of what he means. “I got an email this morning saying that it is cool to see the brand where it is. A guy bought a shirt back in 2018 and has been following us ever since. They are a part of the story and I think part of that is podcasts are more informal. There are podcast communities.”

What Connor is describing sounds like a failure by those of us in the industry at telling sports radio’s story. Plenty of hosts and shows do have that kind of connection with their audience. It’s why we talk about a two-year window when launching a show and finding its audience. It’s why social media sites are filled with messages from fans saying they will never listen to a station again when a show comes to an end.

That is something that I have noticed in the past working with sales staffs in multiple formats. Ad reps are eager to introduce their talent to potential clients. They show off ratings, past guest lists, anything to make the talent look like someone a client would want to spend money with. The audience is almost an afterthought at times.

Selling the host is important. You do want a potential client to recognize the value in who is spreading his or her message, but maybe stations aren’t always doing it in the right way.

A business owner like Connor doesn’t care how the talent sounds or even how many people he or she has listening. He wants to know how the listeners react to the talent.

“It’s more about the people than it is the medium,” he says when I ask point blank why he hasn’t spent more money on sports radio.

The good news for sports radio sellers is that it sounds like Connor Hitchcock’s mind can be changed. He and business owners like him, who all value connection between the messenger and his or her audience, have seen promising returns by investing in smaller, closer knit communities. He doesn’t think it is entirely impossible to find that in radio.

How to Choose Radio Advertising - Nelson Live

I asked Connor if he could ever see Homefield ads airing on stations in places that would make sense. Atlanta and Nashville are college football hotbeds. Homefield has licensing deals with the University of Utah, BYU, and Utah State, all within the Salt Lake City market. Do either of those sound like appealing scenarios for buying radio advertising?

“I mean, we could. We’ve had talks with different radio shows before and we’ve done little trials. In fact, we have one we’re gonna try out here in a bit,” he says.

Axios recently ran a piece that showed a projection of the money spent in advertising on podcasts growing by nearly 1500% from 2015 to 2024. Still, that would only put the industry around $1.7 billion. Compare that to print media advertising, which is expected to fall during the same time span by 27%, leaving the industry at a mere $40.3 billion.

That same piece also showed how listenership is distributed and it paints a perfect picture of Connor Hitchcock’s approach to advertising Homefield Apparel.

The top 1% of podcasts get around 35,000 downloads per episode. That is Joe Rogan, Adam Carolla, and ESPN. The top 2% get around 20,000 downloads per episode. Still a big number for podcasts, but a significant drop.

If you scroll down to look at what puts a podcast in the top 20% amongst all of the hundreds of thousands of its peers, it is a mere 1000 downloads per episode. Radio spends so much time focused on the numbers and not the reaction.

Connor doesn’t put a lot of effort into finding ways to advertise with the Joe Rogans and ESPNs of the world. The bigger the audience, the bigger percentage of passive listeners there are.

This is a guy that built a business with his wife in their spare time. They grew it from a company that made shirts featuring messages of Indiana pride into one of the coolest licensed apparel companies on the Internet. That doesn’t happen by focusing on the number of eyeballs or ears that will receive the message. It is the result of getting in front of the right eyes and ears, the ones that want to support the people singing the praises of Homefield.

Is Connor’s approach crazy? Is it just ahead of its time? Whichever the case, there are going to be more and more people in the coming years that think the same way Connor Hitchcock does and sports radio needs to be ready to answer that.

“With a podcast, you’re scrappy,” Connor says when I ask why it is that listeners are more apt to respond to ads on a podcast than on the radio. “You’re doing everything. You’re responding to every tweet that comes in. It feels like podcasts just allow you to have more interaction with people.”

Every business is a people business. Radio is a story telling business. When reps hit the streets to tell the story of their people, what people are they talking about? For so long the focus has been on how popular personalities are or how good they are at commanding attention.

An advertiser like Connor Hitchcock is viewing advertising through a different lens. He doesn’t want to know about the number of people listening to a show or a host. He wants to know about the number that hang on that host’s every word and want to support advertisers because those advertisers support the host they love.

When reps “tell the story of our people,” it has to include how our people have created their own people. That is why the advertisers that choose podcasts are choosing podcasts.

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How to Help Your Clients with Low Website Conversions

Don’t assume there isn’t enough traffic; focus on optimizing user engagement once visitors arrive on the site.

Jeff Caves

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Graphic for how to increase website conversions
Credit: WPDesigner.Biz

Are your clients dealing with low website conversions? Whenever a marketing campaign is run, and the goal is to convert website visitors into leads, the temptation is to blame low traffic, amongst other issues, for low form fills or appointments being generated.  Just spend more money, you may think! Sometimes, you must look at at least four other potential issues to tackle poor conversion rates. Here are some actionable steps using the IT services industry to increase website conversions.

IT Solutions specializes in providing products, services, or solutions related to technology, particularly in areas such as software development, hardware sales, IT consulting, cybersecurity, cloud computing, networking, and digital transformations. They faced challenges with their website conversions. Despite driving substantial traffic through Google Ads and other SEO tactics, they struggled to convert website visitors into form fills for appointment requests. A 2% to 5% conversion rate could be considered reasonable. Of course, conversion rates can vary based on various factors, such as the competitiveness of the local market, the quality of the website (and radio stations help most to fix that) and its user experience, the effectiveness of marketing campaigns, and the reputation and offerings of the IT solutions business. Focusing on improving the quality of leads and providing exceptional customer service can be just as crucial as achieving high conversion rates. Don’t blame EVERYTHING on the marketing tactics! 

The Diagnosis

Upon thorough analysis, several critical issues were identified with IT Solutions’ website:

1. High Bounce Rate: Nobody was checking out the business. If 70% or more of website visitors only visit the landing page, that is an issue.  It could be slow loading times, irrelevant content, poor user experience, or unclear calls-to-action that prevent them from wanting to know more about IT Solutions. You can check the bounce rate on the Google Analytics page for the website in the left-hand sidebar, click on “Behavior” to expand the menu, then click on “Site Content,” and finally, click on “Landing Pages.” You’ll see a list of landing pages and their respective bounce rates.

2. Complex Navigation: It was hard to move around the website to find relevant information about IT services, and it was unclear who they were initiating contact with and for what purpose.

3. Unclear Calls-to-Action (CTAs): The website lacked clear and compelling CTAs guiding visitors toward requesting an appointment. Simply stating “click here for an appointment” is like asking for a meeting whenever or without establishing value. Here are 28 CTAs for free.

4. Lengthy Forms: The appointment forms were long, without qualifying information, and requested excessive information upfront, deterring potential leads from completing them.

Action Plan

1. Optimize Landing Pages:

   – Redo high-traffic landing pages with clear messaging and compelling CTAs.

   – Showcase IT Solutions’ services as benefits, making it easier for users to request appointments, thereby increasing user engagement and conversions.

2. Simplify Navigation:

   – Reorganize the menu and add more action-oriented links.

   – Provide additional options for users to access relevant information, such as “Get a free IT Solutions 15-point checkup NOW” and “Take this 5-question survey to diagnose your IT issues,” motivating them to book appointments.

3. Enhance CTAs:

   – Utilize concise and persuasive messaging throughout the website.

   – Encourage visitors to take action, whether requesting a free download about “5 things you can do to solve your IT issues on your own” or “get a free pizza for booking an appointment.”

4. Improve the Form Fill:

   – Add a further line about the number of employees who qualify for incoming leads.

   – Highlight the value of leads based on company size, prioritizing forms with higher potential impact.

Review landing pages, navigation, CTAs, and form experience to address website conversion issues. Don’t assume there isn’t enough traffic; focus on optimizing user engagement once visitors arrive on the site.

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‘NHL on TNT’ Gives Hockey Fans the ‘NBA on TNT’ Treatment

Watching Albert and Olczyk call a hockey game is like watching Picasso paint and da Vinci sculpt. They are masters of their respective crafts.

John Molori

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NHL on TNT studio

Let’s play a little word association, sports media style. If I say TNT, what is your response? Chances are it will be a three-letter abbreviation of your own, namely, NBA. Over the years, TNT has built a reputation as arguably the premiere network to telecast the National Basketball Association.

The NBA on TNT pregame and halftime shows have become the gold standard with stars like Ernie Johnson, Jr., Kenny Smith, Charles Barkley, and Shaquille O’Neal. Still, it’s not just this quartet of roundball royalty that has fortified TNT’s hoops coverage.

The rep was also built on tremendous play-by-play announcers like Bob Neal and Kevin Harlan, color analysts like Doug Collins and Reggie Miller, and courtside reporters like the late Craig Sager and current sideline star Allie LaForce.

Indeed, TNT and the NBA have become synonymous, but I have some news for you. This network is not just about professional basketball. This past week I went off the grid with TNT looking at their in-game and studio coverage of the NHL.

On March 24, the NHL on TNT provided coverage of the Pittsburgh Penguins at Colorado Avalanche matchup. Kenny Albert did play-by-play with Eddie Olczyk on color. Albert is not as noted as his legendary broadcasting father Marv Albert, but he has certainly staked his claim as one of the best in the business – able to cross over to multiple sports with equal aplomb.

Hockey is a strong suit for Albert. His rat-tat-tat, drama-building style draws viewers in and keeps us on the edge of our seats. Similarly, Olczyk is one of the top four or five NHL game analysts in the business. His style is understated, providing calm and clear analysis of key plays. They work really well together.

Albert eschews any kind of hackneyed and trite catch phrases for his goal calls. An emphatic, “He shoots and scores!” is plenty enough.

Hockey is a different beast when it comes to play-by-play. Unlike basketball, baseball, football, or even soccer and tennis, there is a minimum of breaks in the action. With hockey, a play-by-play announcer has to know the names of the players like he or she knows her kids’ names.

To me, it is the hardest sport for play-by-play and equally difficult for a color analyst. In basketball, after a team scores, the play-by-play announcer will keep silent and give the color analyst time to talk until the play crosses center court. In baseball and football, there is ample room for commentary.

Hockey does not offer such space, but Olczyk gets the most out of the minimal amount of time. Watching Albert and Olczyk call a hockey game is like watching Picasso paint and da Vinci sculpt. They are masters of their respective crafts.

Coming back from a break in the game, Albert and Olczyk provided on air commentary and then tossed to ice level reporter Brian Boucher who has grown into a tremendous asset to the TNT broadcasts. Boucher provided real talk about Colorado’s objectives of staying on top of their division and vying for the top seed in the Western Conference.

The Penguins, squarely in a rebuilding year having dumped talent at the NHL trade deadline, surprisingly jumped out to a 2–0 lead in this game, and the TNT between periods studio crew was all over it. The excellent Liam McHugh hosted alongside Colby Armstrong, Anson Carter, and Keith Yandle.

Armstrong was especially entertaining. With Pittsburgh outshooting the Avs 16-4, Armstrong noted that it’s the best he’s seen Pittsburgh play in a long time. His reasoning was that teams get geared up for playing Colorado even if it’s out of fear. Great stuff.

Both teams tallied two goals in the second period giving Pittsburgh a 4-2 lead heading into the final frame. When Colorado’s Nathan MacKinnon set up Jonathan Drouin for a goal to make it 4-3, Albert and Olczyk showed their strengths.

Albert called the pass from MacKinnon and one-timer goal from Drouin, and immediately noted that MacKinnon now had a point in all 34 of Colorado’s home games this season. On the goal replay, Olczyk showed how the play developed pointing out how McKinnon allowed Pittsburgh’s Evgenii Malkin to come in close before making the past to Drouin.

The TNT production team then showed a graphic displaying that McKinnon is now second all-time in longest home points streaks trailing only Wayne Gretzky. This was a sublime sequence of symmetry between talent and technicians like a songwriter, musician, and singer creating beautiful music.

What was supposed to be a blowout win for Colorado had now become a hockey barn burner, and the TNT crew was up to the task. Every goal and key play was followed up with replays from multiple angles showing the genesis of the action.

TNT has certainly taken to the velocity of the hockey broadcast with movement that challenges directors, graphics professionals, and videographers.

When there were breaks in this non-stop action, Olczyk was at his best. No hockey analyst draws on his experience as a player and explains that experience better to viewers. The TNT broadcast also lets Boucher freewheel and join in the flow of discussion without having to be introduced.

TNT does not merely rely on the traditional wide shot of the entire rink. We see close-up shots of each goaltender after a great save and the sweat of players on the bench or in the penalty box.

When McKinnon tied the game at 4-4 with 4:38 left in the third period, we got a series of tremendous crowd shots showing the Colorado fans going absolutely berserk. The sage Albert and Olczyk wisely remained quiet for several seconds, letting the cheers do the talking.

When Drouin scored the game winner at 4:06 of overtime, Albert exercised controlled enthusiasm, raising his voice on the call of the goal, but not becoming the show and overshadowing the play itself. He is definitely in the mold of Dan Kelly, Gary Thorne, and Sean McDonough, announcers who enhance but do not supersede the game.

Putting a cherry on top of this hockey Sunday, TNT showed a graphic that the Avalanche now led the NHL in comeback wins this season with 25 and that they were riding a 9-game winning streak. In analyzing the goal, Olczyk opined that the altitude of playing in Colorado was prevalent as the Penguins seemed to tire as the game progressed – really interesting insight.

In the postgame show, Anson Carter made a great point that the chemistry between Drouin and MacKinnon stems from the fact that they have been playing together going back to junior hockey. McKinnon joined in from the arena for a postgame interview. The analysts asked solid questions and even did a funny MVP chant together as the interview ended.

The NHL on TNT takes no back seat to its elder NBA sister. The broadcast provides viewers with flash, dash, and serious hockey talk from every angle – in studio, from the broadcast booth, and on the ice.

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Kim Mulkey Now Has Everyone Anticipating Washington Post Story

I can’t imagine what headline, under normal circumstances, the Washington Post would have to put on a Kim Mulkey story to make me want to read it.

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photo of LSU women's college basketball coach Kim Mulkey
Credit: Dailymail.co.uk

The Washington Post, you might’ve heard, has a story coming out about controversial LSU women’s basketball coach Kim Mulkey. The reason you might’ve heard is because Kim Mulkey told you. The Tigers coach read a fiery prepared statement just before her team started the Women’s NCAA Tournament. In the statement, Mulkey threatened to sue The Post for defamation before the first word was even published.

Now, I’ve never run a public relations firm but that did not seem like a good idea. The Washington Post story on Mulkey is one of the bigger stories in sports right now and nobody even knows what’s in it. The reason the story, apparently unflattering to Mulkey, is even on anyone’s radar screen is Mulkey herself.

It all started with an innocuous social media post by Sports Illustrated’s Pat Forde right in the middle of the most anticipated two days in sports, the NCAA Tournament Round of 64. On his X account, Forde posted: “Hearing some buzz about a big Washington Post story in the works on LSU women’s hoops coach Kim Mulkey, potentially next week. Wagons being circled, etc.”

You know what generally will go unnoticed at 4:00 on the first Friday of the NCAA Tournament? A post on X about a women’s basketball coach. But don’t tell Mulkey, she saw Forde’s post and decided to fight fire with nuclear weaponry. The result: the average person like me now is really interested in what has Mulkey so incensed. By “average person like me” I mean that I can’t imagine what headline, under normal circumstances, the Washington Post would have to put on a Kim Mulkey story to make me want to read it. Maybe:

“LSU Women’s Coach Discovers Ark of the Covenant”

Or:

“Mulkey Reveals True JFK Assassin(s)”

Perhaps:

“Famed Women’s Basketball Coach Reveals the Mystery Behind Slow Drivers in the Left Lane”

Literally any of those catch my attention more than whatever will likely be the Washington Post headline about Mulkey. But now Mulkey is “Mad as Hell and is not going to take this anymore” so I now have an interest I would never before have had in this story. It has been fascinating to watch the online speculation about the subject of the article and all we really know, as of now, is that it will be written by Kent Babb. This is a dream come true for Babb; he writes an article that is, presumably, not flattering about Kim Mulkey and, before it is even published, she gives the article the greatest commercial anyone could give it. Babb couldn’t have entered into a business agreement with Mulkey and had this turn out better for him.

For those who don’t follow Babb, he is a former NFL reporter who now is an award-winning writer for the Washington Post. In his 14 years with The Post, he has written sports features and authored a couple of books. One of those sports features stories was a deep dive into what he viewed as a large inequity in the level of pay for LSU head football coach Brian Kelly and his LSU players. It is this piece Mulkey described as a “hit piece” and, based on that piece, referred to Babb as a “sleazy reporter.” Babb, and many others, resented the fact his story was labeled as a hit piece. In fact, Babb essentially confirmed he was the author Mulkey was referencing when he shared the original article on X with the comment: “Hit piece?”

Whether a printed piece or a recorded interview, I can’t imagine a better promotion for it than the subject of the interview threatening a libel/slander lawsuit, especially before it is even released. That simply screams “This piece is salacious!!” Also, libel and slander suits get settled all the time, right? Of course they don’t, they seem to never even get filed. That little thing called discovery is a scary thing for most public figures.

The NCAA Tournament has been very entertaining, and I think the Sweet 16 and Elite Eight will be terrific. For only the fifth time ever, the top two seeds have advanced to the third round which sets up for a remarkable weekend. For me, I guess it will now include a Washington Post article, not a sentence I’d normally say.

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