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Meet The Market Managers: John Kijowski, Hubbard Radio St. Louis

“I believe confidence comes from competence. You have to be competent over years. Then it’s the ability to communicate tough decisions honestly and transparently and say that you’ve looked at it from all angles and you didn’t do it by yourself.”

Jason Barrett

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When we decided a few months ago to create a Meet The Market Managers series, I told Demetri Ravanos that John Kijowski needed to be a part of it, and I’d run point on writing the piece. It’s not everyday that I get to flip the script and ask questions of someone who once hired me, and peppered me constantly with questions related to 101 ESPN’s programming challenges and opportunities. John is so used to asking the questions that it was fun to hear his answers to my questions and see his visible reactions to a couple of curveballs I tossed in his direction during our Zoom chat.

Aside from my personal connection to John, and he’ll hate me for saying this, but he’s one of the best market managers in the business. Period. You may not know that if you follow the trades and see most of the larger markets earning all of the attention, but anyone who’s worked with or for John already knows this to be true. He prefers flying under the radar. He’d rather his team get the credit for their results. If his family is healthy, his employees are happy, his clients are served, his partners are pleased, and his bosses approve of the work he’s doing, that’s more than enough for John.

What I appreciate about John is that he never had to do a lot of yelling or pounding his fist on a table to make his point and get people to perform. He’ll ask questions to test your conviction on specific issues, he’ll challenge his team to raise the bar, and he’ll seek out new ideas from anywhere in the office, and ask how he can help make your job easier. He’s also accessible and interested in helping all of his managers whether they’re in sales, digital, promotions, engineering or programming. It’s why so many who work for him respect his input and trust his decision making.

As important as John’s professional skills may be, his ability to create a family like atmosphere matters even more. When you work at a John Kijowski led operation, you realize quickly that you’re part of a special kind of culture that others want to be a part of. I was a young programmer in 2008, convinced my better days were ahead of me, but still struggling to find the right leader and company to trust me, believe in me, and allow me to put my vision into action. John and I met to discuss the possibility of creating sports on the FM dial in St. Louis, and at first I thought he was doing what a lot of radio people do, seeking me out for information. I learned though that John was serious about hiring me, the outside noise mattered little to him, and as long as I assembled a great staff, worked well with multiple departments, provided sound reasoning for the decisions I was making, and managed my team to success, he’d have my back every step of the way. It’s why leaving St. Louis for San Francisco was incredibly difficult in 2011. I’ve been fortunate to reconnect with John and the 101 crew over the past few years in my current role.

Having shared all of that, I’d be doing this column a disservice if I didn’t point out one well known Kijowski specialty that those around him know all too well. Working for John requires being smart, strategic, giving maximum effort, and delivering results, but you also better have a good sense of humor. The second you turn around to tackle the day’s agenda, you may find a chair on your desk, a fork in your pocket or a ladder blocking your entrance into the office. It doesn’t matter if you’re the host of afternoon drive, the program director of one of his radio stations, the receptionist at the front desk or a part time member of the street team. If John sees an opportunity to create laughter, he’s going to take it. Those innocent pranks keep the office loose and remind people that it’s ok to work hard and play hard.

Our conversation covered a lot of ground including John’s entry into management, the future of sports betting, what he believes is most important when going thru a merger, the quality he values most in a program director, and what the process was like leading up to the decision to pursue sports on FM in St. Louis. I could easily write another 5,000 words on why John Kijowski is one of the best in this business, but the following interview will allow you to see that for yourself. Enjoy!


Jason Barrett: I was looking at LinkedIn prior to this conversation and it has you stepping into the GM world in 1995. Is that right?

John Kijowski: That’s correct.

JB: So when you were making a pitch for the first time to become a GM, what do you remember from that process?

JK: It’s interesting because before Sinclair, I was with Gannett as a DOS going for the GM position. I’ll never forget the president of Gannett broadcasting asking me to tell him about the different areas of the radio station and rank them in order of importance. I was a DOS so what do you think I said?

JB: Sales.

JK: Sales department, of course. Nothing happens unless we sell something. He just nodded, and said ‘what else’? I said, ‘well, you need a great signal, and programming’ and he said ‘OK, put them in order’. I said ‘sales, programming, signal’. He told me ‘John, you’re not ready for this position yet’. He said ‘unless there’s great programming, even the best sales staff won’t be able to sell it at a high premium consistently unless the programming is right’. That was the first great lesson of many that I learned.

JB: So that was your first taste of being close to running the show. The next time around, you did get the opportunity. When did you know you had the job?

JK: Barry Drake was the one who hired me as a GM from a DOS position at Sinclair. I can’t tell you I knew I had it until he said ‘this is yours’. I felt like I did the interview very well. Barry is an incredibly bright man. I thought I did a good job with him but I really didn’t know I had it until he said it was mine.

JB: So you begin your venture into management with Sinclair, who then transferred ownership to Bonneville, a great company that you spent over 11 years with. Bonneville then sold to Hubbard, another amazing group which you’ve had the pleasure of spending another decade with. You lucked out the past twenty years working for two great broadcasting groups. Having been thru a few mergers, as a GM, what’s that first month or two like when new owners are coming in? You have to think about your own future, your staff’s future, if they’ll tinker with the products you’ve helped build, and possibly change the strategy or even a format. Where does your focus go?

JK: I think of me last. You have to think of your team first. Our job is to acquire the best talent around us, and put them in the right seat on the bus. But you also have to retain them. When there’s a potential merger, you want to retain a great team. Whether the company retains you or not, obviously it’s critically important, but the team comes first. You want to make sure that what we’ve built is preserved for growth. I always looked at the team first, and communicated with the buying company on the aspects of what they’re going to be looking at, which are the obvious metrics of cash flow, net operating expenses, and net revenue. Where’s your growth come from? How do you look when the ratings aren’t so good? How is the cash flow? If you have good cash flow years while the ratings aren’t good, how do you do it? It’s mainly about protecting the team, and showing what the mission’s been.

JB: As you know some may be more focused on their own futures especially during a time when there’s a lot of uncertainty. Your answer explains why you’ve come thru it in great shape each time.

JK: You said before that I’ve been lucky, and I have been. I’m very fortunate to have worked with some great broadcasters. Bonneville under Bruce Reese and Drew Horowitz, and then coming over to a family owned business with Hubbard led by Ginny Morris, these are just amazing companies with great people. What the two have in common is shared vision, and leadership. You know exactly what they want you to do. Everybody is a part of the process and they want to show you where they’re going but they certainly want strong opinion from the market manager. Do you agree with the plan or should we avoid this? Do you see other options for growth? I’ve been lucky to work for two great companies.

JB: You mentioned how they seek your input when dealing with important business matters, so when you’re reporting to your bosses and having to either relay bad news about a talent or a quarterly sales performance, ask for additional funds that might not have budgeted or offer a point of view that differs from something they want to do, what do you think is important to communicate so they remain confident that they have great leadership in place overseeing their markets and know you’re looking out for the best interests of the company rather than just offering lip service to give them what they might want to hear but may not necessarily be what’s best for the long term interest in growing the brands under your watch?

JK: It’s all a process. I believe confidence comes from competence. You have to be competent over years. Then it’s the ability to communicate tough decisions honestly and transparently and say that you’ve looked at it from all angles and you didn’t do it by yourself. You include your Operations Manager, Director of Sales, Chief Engineer, Business Manager, the Marketing and Promotions team. You’ve brought everyone into the conversation who’s part of that small circle and said ‘what could we get tripped up on? This looks too good to be true, what’s wrong here? If I were the opponent, how would I attack it? And remember the opponent may not be another radio station or radio group. Maybe it’s how consumers are engaging with media in general right now. If you’re not doing it for them, the end user, and you’re only doing it for yourself, you’ll fail. How you communicate that takes confidence, but you have to some competence too.

JB: You hired me to help build 101 ESPN in September 2008. The station launched a few months later in January 2009. Before we even talked though, you had to have a number of conversations internally about the benefits of flipping to sports and the concerns associated with making a move into the format. Those same types of conversations take place all the time whether it involves talent, program directors, play by play partnerships or other business challenges and opportunities. When you’re considering a major move such as a format flip, what is it that you have to see to convince you that it’s worth pursuing and changing your current direction?

JK: You take that team that I just described, those critically important department heads, particularly on the programming side, and you ask ‘where is there an underserved part of the audience in our market?’ Even if you see a direct competitor, is the space itself under served? You certainly are aware of what we did putting 101 ESPN on in 2009. There was no FM outlet for robust and strong sports talk. There was guy talk on the AM dial, and we looked at the situation over and over again and said ‘do we need another rock station in town?’ There was no Triple A station so that area was open, but it looked like it was covered well between the classic rock and alternative stations in the market. We asked ‘is there easy listening?’ Yep. We’ve got that. Was Urban available. Nope, there were three of those stations. So we kept looking and asking ‘where are their holes to fill’ and we did our logistics and hired Coleman to do what was called a format finder. We made the investment to see if the research supported what our gut was telling us. Decisions made on science and gut are usually pretty good. Then you gather that team and ask ‘what will the ratings look like’, and you take that number down. ‘What will the revenue be’, and you take that number down too.

JB: Since you brought up asking for projections, I always wondered why you’d even ask me to project the radio station’s results for the following year. I’d be thinking ‘I’m not a fortune teller, so do you want me to just write something down and make an uneducated guess on where the audience might be in twelve months?.’ Case in point, nobody could’ve predicted going into 2020 that a pandemic would hit and do a number on the media industry. So what good are those actual projections?

JK: (laughs) But you still have to do it. You have to do the work and study where you think things might go. Our owner Stanley Hubbard, and Ginny Morris who runs the radio division, already had us doing a ‘what if’ plan before the pandemic hit. What if the market all of a sudden shrunk by 25%. Go five years out, what does that look like? We had just done that plan the year earlier. It was extremely helpful because as soon as you think you can predict things, the unexpected happens.

JB: I want to ask you about radio play by play partnerships. When the station launched in 2009, it went on the air with the St. Louis Rams. I remember Drew Horowitz not exactly loving that deal (laughs). Obviously the state of play by play today is much different than it was 12 years ago. Streaming is now a bigger part of the picture. Some teams now want to sell their own inventory or they’ll give up more commercial time in a broadcast to try and retain their rights fees. You work with the St. Louis Blues who are well received by your audience and clients. There are a lot of positives to being in business with teams but there can be some challenges too. What does a good partnership between a team and sports radio station look like to you?

JK: You asked earlier about selling up ideas to ownership. The process isn’t much different when it comes to creating a partnership with teams. Isn’t that why we’re here? We’re trying to create partnerships with our listeners, our colleagues inside the building, and with our advertisers. So what is the shared goal? I knew what the Rams goal was and how they measured it, and I know what the Blues expect. They’re both very different. When you ask the question ‘what does a good partnership look like?’ I think it’s important to describe it as if you were telling a story. Five years from now, I will evaluate this partnership by looking at how we hit this, this and this. Is that revenue? Non-spot revenue? Ratings? How can we help the club? We have tremendous access to players. That was important to us. Before we had the Blues, we had access to players with the Rams, but it’s not like what we have now. Why that’s important to us is because the listening audience, and the people who view us and engage with us on social, they want to hear from them. They want to hear from hosts on our airwaves who’ve played the game such as Jamie Rivers and Brad Thompson from The Fast Lane who played for the Blues and Cardinals respectively. They want to hear the stories of what took place behind the dressing room doors. What’s important to the club, and what’s important to the radio station, and how can we find common ground together to help each other. Yes it always comes down to money, but there’s a lot of different ways to do the deal then to just pay a ridiculous rights fee, that you’ll probably never get back, unless you’re in a Top 5 market. It’s incredibly difficult.

JB: Another partnership I want to ask you about is ESPN Radio. Your station has worked with the network for over a decade. When you say the four letters to most sports fans, they instantly carry weight. People know what brand you’re talking about. On the other hand, the radio network is different today than it has been in the past. Some are good with the changes, others aren’t. When you analyze your relationship with your national radio network partner, how do you evaluate it? What do you think they do a great job helping your brand with, and where can they improve?

JK: The brand of ESPN still matters. It hasn’t suffered a lot since we started the partnership, in fact I think it’s as big as ever. The ESPN brand is spectacular and the association with it is important to us. As an affiliate, I think there are a lot of ways to do a deal. I’d like to see them provide a little more flexibility on the barter. The gentleman I work with is flexible and reviewing our arrangement right now. Our brand though is live and local from 7a to 6p and then we go into games whether it be the Blues or the ESPN offerings from the NBA, MLB, college games, etc.. So that covers a lot of our main programming windows. I think the lead in to our morning show is really important. We launched with Mike & Mike and they did a spectacular show. It performed well here. That then morphed into Golic and Wingo which featured Trey Wingo, a guy with a well known national profile who spent a number of years here in St. Louis, and that too did well. Now they’re going thru an additional evolution with their new morning show. I think the jury is out but they are talented guys. We carry that show from 5a-7a and it’s important because it launches into our first local show of the day. So we’ll be monitoring that situation closely but the brand itself is super strong, if we’re able to get a little flexibility with the barter that’d help, but I’m proud to partner with them and appreciate the way they’ve treated us over the years.

JB: An area that a lot of industry people are hot on and see huge upside for the future in is sports betting. Missouri hasn’t been declared a legal state yet.

JK: Not yet but it could go thru in 2022. I think it will. It’ll be big.

JB: Knowing that it’s coming soon and the advertising dollars could be bigger and the appetite from the audience may continue getting stronger for that type of content, how do you expect sports betting to change the way sports radio is presented? For instance, the growth of gambling will be received differently by on-air talent. Some are going to be into discussions that revolve around looking at lines, prop bets and changes in betting behavior on a specific game, others might not want any part of those conversations. Taking all of that into account, what excites you and concerns you about the space and how do you see it changing the format?

JK: The part that excites me most is the revenue potential obviously. We know it’s coming so having a plan is important. We have a team that is meeting and reviewing what it might look like and developing it so we have it ready for execution this year even if we don’t start it until next year. Yes there may be some hosts that aren’t into it right now but this is going to continue gaining steam so more hosts are going to have to be into it because it’s where things are headed. Most of our talent have either a FanDuel or DraftKings account. Some have both. They have responded well to it. I think there’s going to be a lot of future opportunities for sports radio stations and talent for live events and on-air endorsements around sports betting. We’ve already started hiring street team to start in the 4th quarter because we expect big events around Busch Stadium and ScottTrade Center and we have soccer coming soon. I think the combination of events, endorsements, hosts being into the content, and special programming being available thru our brand is going to be part of it. I know a lot of people haven’t embraced HD2 to this point, however, I think there could be a dedicated HD2 channel for this that people go to for alternate broadcasts around the Cardinals or Blues that focus heavily on the sports gambling discussion around the game. You might hear ‘It’s 3 and 2 on the batter, is he going to get on or make an out? The odds say it’s 60% likely that he won’t succeed.’ I don’t rule out that possibility of HD2 being utilized in a bigger way.

JB: The last two things I want to pick your brain on are podcasting and social media. Each are important for branding and connecting with an audience but from a revenue standpoint they’re not on the same playing field yet with radio dollars. I see and hear a lot of noise out there about running away from the word ‘radio’ but radio is still driving the revenue bus. I love podcasting and social media as much as the next person but I don’t understand the fascination with distancing ourselves from the one word that has represented us for decades and still helps us generate dollars and interest. That said, younger people have different ways of consuming radio than you and I did. I understand why the industry is planning now for where we might be in 10-20 years. When you look at podcasting and social media, what do you feel needs to happen for both to become a bigger source of revenue for radio brands?

JK: It is called dual tracks. We have to keep doing what we’re doing on the radio side because that continues to be the big megaphone. People that are branding need radio. Definitely. No question. Advertisers definitely need radio, especially sports radio because it works for the client. Podcasting is an area we are involved in. It’s critically important to where we think growth is. We have to be able to create and innovate by introducing new podcasting content. For instance, we have a Blues podcast that takes one member of 101 ESPN, and two members of 105.7 The Point, our alternative station. It’s not something you’re going to hear on either radio station so that helps draw people in. We also want to create the best Cardinals podcast in St. Louis. We have the talent to do it but the right idea and personnel for it is important. We are always looking at ways to get more eyeballs and ears on our podcasts and video content and it comes from delivering original entertainment around the teams and people they care about most. If we produce material that people value, regardless of where it’s distributed, we’ll be able to monetize it.

JB: Before we wrap up, I’ve got to ask you a question about choosing a program director because you hired me to start 101 ESPN, Kent Sterling to succeed me when I left for San Francisco, Hoss Neupert to step in after Kent, and Tommy Mattern after Hoss. All four of us are different people, each with a different programming style and philosophy. When you’re looking for a candidate to run a brand, what sets someone apart from others when you’re going thru a process and trying to determine who to trust with programming one of your stations?

JK: One word – leadership. It all comes down to leadership. I don’t need a program director or a manager of things. I need a leader of people. That’s not just all about motivation. Motivation is a small part of it. A leader recognizes what everybody’s role is, puts them in the right positions, and is constantly self-directing it when they get off the road or cross the line a little bit. The leader also has to understand sales and content. I used to say ‘ratings = revenue’. Not anymore. Ratings are very important but it’s all about content generation now. We need on-air talent that are content machines and put it out on multiple platforms and have that entertaining way to make it sticky. A leader has to find those people and have a great relationship with the DOS and understand their strategy and tactics to help them monetize the content.

JB: I’m going to end with this, when you think about the present and future of the business, what’s the one thing that keeps you up at night and don’t tell me it’s your retirement because you have some time before that happens.

JK: I hope Ginny and Dave Bestler read this because I do have time. The one thing that keeps me up at night is figuring out where to look and find unique talent. And I’m not just talking about on-air. I’m talking about sales talent. Cost per point sellers are over. It’s been over for a while. We need people who need to think client first or listener first and what are their goals and how can we help them because it’s not about a one-time sale or a one-time great rating month. It’s about consistent success. The only people that can do that in my opinion are the people that, and I keep saying this, the content mavens. Those who listen more than talk and understand what the client or listener is looking for and finding a way to deliver it to them in a very creative way. These are entertainers. You can be funny in this format. Look, the pandemic should’ve taught everybody that we have to be entertaining even when there are no games being played. We’re in the entertainment business. We’re in the acquisition business. Our job is to acquire new customers and new listeners, and how we keep them engaging with us and supporting us depends on having great unique talented people representing our brands.

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BSM Writers

The 2024 BSM Summit Was a Great Success But The Advertising Industry Needs to Step Up in 2025

“I’m calling on advertising professionals to step it up in 2025. This conference and room benefits you too.”

Jason Barrett

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The BSM Summit is in the books. I’m physically and mentally exhausted from it but that’s the price to pay to deliver a successful event. I want to thank all who attended, supported, and spoke at the show. We’ve done six of these conferences and they get better each year. I can always find things to improve but last week’s show was a great success. We now have to decide if we’ll head to Chicago, Las Vegas, Los Angeles or San Francisco in 2025. To vote, click here.

Before you ask, we recorded the entire show and will make all sessions available via on-demand. Those who were in NYC will receive a free login to the show. Those who didn’t attend and wish to see what they missed will be able to purchase on-demand tickets for $99.99. Once everything is ready, I’ll alert the masses.

Looking back, we had a strong mix of sessions. The Power Panel, Game Changers, Strictly Business, Riding The Revenue Train and Experts on the Digital Expressway all offered great insight on what executives are dealing with and where growth is coming from. We also had Annie Agar, Andrew Marchand, Damon Amendolara, Bonnie Bernstein, Maggie Gray, Kevin Clark, Dave Greene, Mike McVay and Bruce Gilbert host sessions, which kept the show fresh and interesting. Bringing together Nick Wright, Danny Parkins, Andrew Fillipponi and Damon Amendolara together was another highlight for the show.

I hosted a number of sessions too with some incredible industry titans. Caroline Beasley was excellent, offering honest feedback from the CEO’s chair. She was the first radio CEO to appear and speak at the BSM Summit. David Field, Bob Pittman, Mary Berner, Bill Wilson, Jennifer Witz and others, I’ll see you down the road.

Caroline explained why the radio business is viable despite what Bell Media said, however she reminded folks that the industry has been healthier. We’ve got to work to get back to that level. Her insights on how she manages Boston and Philadelphia differently, Beasley’s approach to diversity, the challenges with measurement, and the rise of artificial intelligence were all valuable. It was great talking business with someone as accomplished as Caroline.

I was also blessed to reconnect with John Skipper. We had a blast talking business in 2022 and this time was even better. Whether we got into Meadowlark Media’s progress, industry layoffs, the state of podcasting, the ESPN-FOX-WBD streaming deal or artificial intelligence, John was ready to share insightful answers. My favorite line though was when I asked him about AI. In classic John fashion he said, ‘I’m 68. By the time this takes off, hopefully someone else can deal with this shit.’ I know many who feel the same way.

Among the talent talks I hosted, Michael Kay and Peter Rosenberg were tremendous. Michael admitted that going through GM and PD changes has been hard, and the move away from the FM dial and Nielsen will take time to get used to. At the same time, he’s impressed with Good Karma Brands and wouldn’t have signed another contract with the company if he didn’t have complete trust in their people and approach. Given how many GKB folks were in the room, Michael could have given politically correct answers. Instead, he was honest. We need more of that. Playing it safe doesn’t address issues. Honest dialogue does.

Last but certainly not least, Stephen A. Smith and Paul Heyman were simply outstanding. I’ll start with Stephen A.. I’ve been looking to sit down and chat with him at the Summit for six years. The timing worked out, and I’m glad it did. He was electric. Having Stephen A. and Paul cross paths backstage too was great. The tweet they put out blew up.

Before going on stage with Stephen A., I was ready to do 35-minutes. I know he has a ton on his plate, so I didn’t want to abuse his time. As we’re heading out, he says ‘Let’s do 45. I’m good with 45.’ I said, ’45 it is’. We took the stage, discussed his schedule and prep, knowing when First Take needs to pivot, the rise of his digital show, his future plans, management diversity, etc., and as I’m about to wrap with questions, he says ‘I’ve got time for 3 more questions.’ An hour later, we end day one. That was awesome. It’s easy to see why he’s the best in the game.

What a treat it was to have Paul Heyman with us. His insight on creating promos, and writing shows as both a leader and underdog were outstanding. Even better was his feedback on the Tribal Chief character of Roman Reigns being born from Marlon Brando’s Apocalypse Now. I could’ve talked business with Paul for another hour. He also promoted his appearance prior to the Summit, sharing posts with millions of followers and getting the WWE behind it. I never expect that but when it happens, it says a lot about an individual. The WWE has to get ‘The Wiseman’ at more industry conferences. He gets the business and makes the room smarter.

The session I received the best feedback on that wasn’t tied to stars was ‘Making Sports Radio Work on YouTube‘. Make sure to read Dave Greene’s column today about it. I knew the session was going to be a hit as soon as I saw Phil Mackey and Matt Moscona’s slides. They did a great job showing what does and doesn’t work on YouTube and how to monetize the platform. When I said last month that the mid-market voters screwed up leaving Moscona off the BSM Top 20 PD list, this was why. What these guys are doing in Minneapolis and Baton Rouge should be paid attention to. They’re crushing it and doing so without a large corporate push.

Another session that was popular was ‘Secrets to Social Success‘. Annie Agar, Omar Raja, Steve Braband and Josh Fendrick know the social space and were excellent sharing thoughts on how to create impact on specific platforms. I also love how the session ended with Logan Swaim of The Volume asking the group to draft their top 2 platforms from a group of X, Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Snapchat, TikTok and YouTube. The one surprise, no one picked Facebook.

This Summit had stronger attendance from GM’s than ever before, almost 300 total people registered, and a ton of different companies were in attendance. One of those groups, Good Karma Brands continues to impress me by how they use the event to unite their teams and use the gathering to make their local markets better. I was thrilled to be back at the Ailey Theater, the home of our 2020 show. The stage and screen are huge, and the seating is great. The only challenge was getting people back into the room after they flocked to the hallway to network.

There was though one thing missing at the Summit that I want to see change in the future; stronger representation from the advertising industry.

This conference isn’t just for radio hosts and program directors. It’s for everyone and anyone who works in the media business. We explore ways to make money, grow audience, deliver impact for partners, examine and excel on new platforms, and explore new technology and key changes affecting the media business. These are relevant issues for advertisers/media buyers not just content creators/managers. I tried to offer tickets and speaking opportunities to get media buyers and marketers involved and the response was light. I’m calling on advertising professionals to step it up in 2025. This conference and room benefits you too.

As I drove home with my son, Dylan, he asked ‘how do you even come close to matching this one? Is there anyone left?’ Without hesitating I said, ‘Did you see Dave Portnoy there? Big Cat and PFT? Bill Simmons? Joe Buck? Troy Aikman? Mr. Beast? Mark Cuban? Jim Nantz? Dan Le Batard? David Berson? Adam Silver? Elon Musk? Jeff Bezos? Mark Zuckerberg? Daniel Ek? Tim Cook? The Kelce Brothers? Peyton & Eli? Shaq? Charles Barkley? Bob Costas? Dan Patrick? Gary Vee? He looked at me, cracked a smile and said, ‘I guess there’s always more you can do.’

My next challenge, building the 2024 BNM Summit in Washington D.C. this September. Thanks again to everyone who made time to join us, speak and sponsor the show. It really means a lot.

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Thumbs Up:

Andrew Salciunas: It’s great to see 97.5 The Fanatic giving ‘Choonis’ a bigger opportunity. Andrew did a nice job alongside Anthony Gargano, he was ready to be elevated, and he’s respected by the local competition. Adding him to mornings with John Kincade gives the morning show new energy while adding a new wrinkle to middays. WIP remains the dominant brand in Philadelphia, and these moves don’t guarantee anything changing. However, putting a talented broadcaster with a bright future in a bigger role is a good start.

The Kelce Brothers and Shannon Sharpe: The iHeart Podcast Awards took place last week and two award winners couldn’t have been more deserving. The Kelce Brothers earned the honor for podcast of the year. Shannon Sharpe won Sports Podcast of the Year for his show Club Shay Shay. The Kelce’s and Shannon are blowing up in the digital audio space. iHeart nailed it with these two recipients. Congrats to both. The more they each succeed, the more it’s going to make the athlete creator economy an even bigger part of sports media’s future.

Travis Hancock: Mark Baker from Gastonia, NC is a dedicated listener of WFNZ in Charlotte. The longtime caller and Charlotte sports radio consumer has been in a hospital battling serious health issues which have included needing surgery for a stomach problem, treatment for a heart condition to survive the surgery, and a large, cancerous tumor that could end his life soon.

Rather than offering prayers and hoping for the best, Travis has called on the Charlotte sports community to offer encouragement to lift Mark’s spirits. Tons of current and former Panthers, Hornets, and media personalities have shared uplifting messages for Mr. Baker. One scroll through his feed on X and you’ll see tons of messages from Greg Olsen, Paul Finebaum, Luke Kuechly and many others.

Mark from Gastonia’s road ahead remains unclear. Travis is doing his part to provide words of encouragement to help him get through the day, and raising awareness of his GoFundMe to help cover medical expenses. Here’s to hoping Mark recovers and is able to listen to and call his favorite sports radio station, WFNZ, one more time.

Thumbs Down:

Deadspin: The brand was sold last week by Gizmodo Media Group to a European firm, which plans to take a different approach to content. Deadspin was once a take-no-prisoners brand, stepping on anyone and everyone in their way. But those who fueled that fire to make the brand respected and feared departed. The crew that followed had some of that venom but not as much. Crushing people and reputations may generate attention but eventually flames burn out. When the ones responsible for financing chaos pull the plug, it’s harder to find others hungry to do business with those who made a living trying to take them down.

Diversity Zealots: For 8 years, I’ve written columns about sports media’s diversity challenges. I believe the industry can be better in this area especially in management. It’s a subject I’ve put focus on at Summit’s in three different cities with multiple executives including our latest in NYC. In fact, Jeff Rickard remarked last week how this year’s event had the strongest female representation we’ve ever had, something I’m proud of because we’ve worked hard on it.

More importantly, I continue to help women, and Black and Hispanic professionals get hired in key roles in sports media. Yet there are uninformed people in our business and some who are now on the outside looking in who like to flock to social media when the diversity issue comes up or when they see a poster or panel about our show promoting white people involved in it.

First, rather than running your mouth and sounding stupid, how about doing your homework? A simple look at the show schedule would’ve shown you there were a lot of women taking part. Secondly, how about actually making a difference yourself? Who have you hired? Who have you featured on stage at an industry event or welcomed on to your show to explore the issue further? What exactly are you doing to make things better in the industry besides sitting behind a computer complaining on X or Facebook? It’s easy to spew nonsense but harder to actually solve problems. Stop talking, start doing.

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Stephen A. Smith & Paul Heyman Were Headliners; Phil Mackey & Matt Moscona Steal Headlines

Based on the response most everyone I talked to had about this session, this was the “light bulb moment” for most during the Summit.

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Coming in to the 2024 BSM Summit in New York it was clear who the headliners were going to be. WWE’s Paul Heyman and ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith hit it out of the park with their sessions on Wednesday afternoon. I could listen to the two of them speak for hours.

The way Heyman described feeling a crowd and where to take a promo. The connection you have to have with an audience and the way he can make everyone in a large arena and the millions watching on television feel like he is talking to them, individually. He truly is one of the best television characters of all time.

Stephen A. and his passion for what he does is incredible. Love him or hate him, you watch him, and you are interested in what he has to say. His delivery is part of what makes him so special and on this day, he really captured the room as he talked a lot about what he still feels he wants and needs to do in this business. His confidence and his work ethic can never be questioned.

The keynote conversations with Caroline Beasley and John Skipper were both excellent and Skipper may have had the thought of the week when he said, regarding Artificial Intelligence, “It’s going to create a lot of disruption. I’m still more fond of intelligence that walks with two legs. I am 68 and thinking maybe I can get through life without this sh**”

However, it was the session that came about 35 minutes after Skipper’s conversation with Barrett Media president Jason Barrett, which stole the headlines. This is where SKOR Noth’s Phil Mackey and Matt Moscona of 104.5 ESPN in Baton Rouge did a panel entitled, Making Sports Radio Work on YouTube.

Based on the response most everyone I talked to had about this session, this was the “light bulb moment” for most during the Summit. I know everyone that was in that room to hear the session took something they could use immediately back to their stations, if they were someone who is in a market without a video/YouTube strategy or even for those that already do.

Now, there is a couple of things to dissect here. The first thing is for those without a video/YouTube strategy in 2024, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!? This has been my biggest pet peeve for a long time in that the industry is so slow to react rather than step up and be the leader. You have the content, you have the audience, you have the talent, the talent has the relationships and trust with the audience. Meanwhile, digital content creators came along and built better, stronger relationships with audiences with attribution right on the screen and took millions and millions of dollars in advertising along the way. Then, and only then, did most respond and by then it was too late and it was time to play catch up.

Sorry, that just needed to be said. Don’t even get me started on Podcasting and the missed opportunities there.

I digress. This is why the BSM Summit is held, to share ideas and to learn new things you can implement.

What Phil and Matt did in this panel was break it down very simply. Phil shared five things they have learned since launching on YouTube which included: producing for YouTube, knowing “niches get the riches,” using SEO-friendly headlines, having great thumbnails, and using product placement which has great value for local direct advertisers.

Matt laid out two things very clearly that can make a gigantic difference when it comes to YouTube. The first being a great thumbnail and the other being a great title. He pointed out that YouTube is a search engine, and it is second only to Google in that regard. Therefore, you must think about what your audience is searching for when they are using the platform.

This session was equal parts valuable information and presented in a very simple way for folks to understand and take back for their teams to implement. Many of you will be having YouTube strategy meetings soon (trust me) and my suggestion to you is to do a couple of things. First, if you were not at the BSM Summit I know a replay opportunity will be out soon for you to view on-demand. I highly suggest you do so, not just for this session, but if you do not have a video strategy, this is 35 minutes you need to see.

Secondly, Matt Moscona noted in the presentation that they spent time looking at what the best stations around the country were doing and other digital outlets and how they looked and how they engaged with the audiences, etc. This is important because you should be doing the same thing. So many others have tried, adjusted, tried again, pivoted, tried again and you have the luxury of going to YouTube.com today and seeing where they landed. That would be a suggestion for a first step, go take a look and see what can be done, relatively inexpensively, to create an entirely new revenue stream and the best way possible to engage with and super-serve your audience.

I would highly suggest you start by taking a look at what Phil Mackey and his team at SKOR North are doing as well as what Matt Moscona and his team at 104.5 ESPN in Baton Rouge are doing.

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The Best Thing I Heard This Week

Being in New York most of the week, I wasn’t able to listen to or watch much sports programming. However, I did spend time with several of the brightest minds in our industry. The best thing I heard this week was the amount of positivity around sports radio, sports television and digital sports coverage and conversation.

Yes, there are problems. Oy, are there problems. But there is so much to be looking forward to in this space.

I talked with several young content creators at the BSM Summit, and it was energizing. It was great to hear their enthusiasm for what is going on and I think, frankly, a lot of that has to do with the new companies that have come into the space. These people didn’t spend time in a tired, old radio or television environment where they are content trying to teach old dog’s new tricks. They are working for forward-thinking companies who are allowing them the space, time and resources to create.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

In Case You Missed It

On Friday morning as I was traveling back from New York, I had the chance to read a terrific piece from John Molori, Sports Media is in its Golden Age for Women. John’s column centers on just a few of the women who are succeeding, big time, in sports media today. John highlights Erin Andrews, Pam Oliver, Hannah Storm and Cari Champion while mentioning several others. I am sure John felt like he could go on and on with this column.

John writes, “March is Women’s History Month, and at no time in the history of television have there been more talented and capable women in the sports media field. Viewers are blessed to enjoy the work of time-tested and experienced personalities, and equally fortunate to see an endless stream of young and driven women who want to make a mark in the industry.

“The once male-dominated field has been plowed down like the cornfield in Field of Dreams. In its place is a wide-open and diverse roster of broadcasters whose gifts transcend any gender labels.”

You can read John’s full column by clicking here.

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Field Yates Goes Beyond the Numbers for ESPN NFL Coverage

“No day feels like work for me, and it’s something that has allowed me to meet some incredible people along the way.”

Derek Futterman

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Field Yates
Courtesy: The Measure

With just over one month to go until the 2024 NFL Draft, Field Yates is entering the final stages of his year-round preparation process. Amid an NFL season that concluded with a thrilling Super Bowl resulting in a second-consecutive championship for the Kansas City Chiefs, Yates was balancing real-time coverage with shrewd prognostication and evaluation of the next generation of stars. There has been anticipation regarding who the Chicago Bears will select with the first-overall draft pick and the other franchises thereafter to welcome a new class to the league. For this draft alone, Yates has compiled projections for 322 players that has involved meticulous film study, analyzing quantitative data and interviews with the athletes and their surrounding personnel.

As an NFL insider for ESPN, Yates consistently remains in the know on all things pertaining to the game of football. The new league year begins just after the Super Bowl, and he ensures to enter its confines ready to tackle free agency and the NFL Draft before offseason workouts lead to training camp.

During the season, Yates is in conversation with relevant sources from around the NFL to gather information about additional qualitative considerations that could impact the draft position of a player. He periodically authors mock drafts in articles that outline how he believes the three-day event will play out as well. While Yates and other NFL insiders help fans become more informed and engaged with tentpole events throughout the season, there is a different kind of ambiguity surrounding the NFL Draft that can lead to unexpected outcomes.

“I compare it to studying for – not that I ever took this – but I would say it feels like studying for the LSAT,” Yates explained. “You could study every hour of every day, but ultimately once the actual event begins, there’s specific problems that you have to solve; or in the case of the Draft, I’m going to study more players than are actually drafted, and I’m going to have players in my mind going in certain ranges.”

There are unpredictable occurrences that take place over the course of the NFL and collegiate seasons with the potential to alter the overall draft order. For example, Yates emphasized that most people did not expect LSU quarterback Jayden Daniels to project as a top-five selection entering the season. Yet after a breakout year in which Daniels led college football in quarterback rating and threw for 40 touchdowns and 3,812 yards, he caught the attention of several teams in the early first round.

“He had a remarkable season, so there is this balancing act of sort of taking all the information you had going into a year, but making sure you’re not married to it,” Yates said. “You’ve got to be mindful of how things can change once the season begins, and you sort of have to adjust your board accordingly.”

More than 54 million fans watched last year’s NFL Draft with an average audience equating to 6 million consumers per day. The average viewership figure was up 12% year-over-year, which was a harbinger of things to come for the league’s regular season and playoff slate of games.

Yates was involved in this coverage throughout the year, which included television hosting and analysis, two original podcasts, writing and reporting. Although his endeavors in these media center around football, he brings a different approach as to how he presents the information, imagining the cluster of platforms as if it were an accordion. Writing provides Yates the ability to start and stop, whereas his radio appearances generally last eight to 15 minutes and lead to real-time dissemination of his findings and opinions.

“I always think about every topic through a couple of different prisms, but generally speaking if you have one initial thought that comes to mind, you better have that one ready for TV,” Yates said, “because in TV, sometimes you get 30 seconds on a topic and sometimes you get more, but you better be prepared to have a truncated answer on TV because it’s the one medium where you have this finite period of time that is usually just one show window.”

During the previous summer, Yates hosted ESPN’s daily studio program, NFL Live, while Laura Rutledge was on maternity leave. Being able to fill in for Rutledge, someone who Yates considers a close friend and as good a host in all of television, was a task for which he was honored to take on. While he generally displays his football acumen on this program in a contributing role outside of its main cast, he suddenly found himself responsible for setting up the deep roster of analysts and also delivering his own opinions over the course of a show.

NFL Live is one of those shows that when I was there, my mindset was, ‘Let the stars of the show do their thing,’” Yates said. “As far as the analysis role, we weren’t as reactionary to the news of yesterday because there weren’t that many games that you’re reacting to.”

Before he started covering football on a regular basis, Yates was a tight end and linebacker for his high school football team and was named to the All-Independent School League. From there, he attended Wesleyan University where he played on the football and lacrosse teams while majoring in psychology. For parts of high school and college, Yates interned with the New England Patriots and ultimately narrowed his focus to coaching and scouting, ultimately trying to prove his worth to remain in the NFL. In the end, he was hired by the Kansas City Chiefs as a member of its scouting and coaching department where he spent games in the coaching box and eventually helped chart defensive plays.

Experience working in the NFL is not a necessary prerequisite in order to serve as an effective analyst or commentator, Yates affirmed, but he is cognizant of the fact that it did give him an inherent advantage to decipher nuances of the sport. In fact, he refers to his time in the league as his “football Rosetta Stone,” carving a stele from which he decodes different facets of the sport.

“It allowed me to understand a little bit deeper some of the things that I probably was aware of but was able to kind of crystallize,” Yates said, “like what specifically I was looking for in players and kind of what went into the process of scouting a player at a very, very, very basic level, sort of understanding what went into a game plan.”

Yates enjoyed his work at the NFL level, but he quickly realized that the outline of events made it difficult to attend events such as weddings and his five-year high school reunion. He was making sacrifices to work in football, and while he knows that he may have felt differently about it at another time in his life, he began to ponder over making a change.

“It’s a schedule that does not work around you; you work around it, and I just sort of felt like there was a little bit more balance for me out there in the world of sports media, which all these years later I feel validated in saying,” Yates conveyed, “because while I absolutely 100% love everything that goes into the scouting process in so many ways, I do have some balance in my life that I’m not sure would have been afforded if I stayed in that world of scouting.”

After moving on from his job in football, Yates earned his real-estate license and thought that the field would serve him better in a career. Six months later though, he felt a yearning for sports and was looking to find a way back into the industry in a role that would better serve his aspirations.

Once he realized that sports media could prove to be optimal, he began sending emails to Mike Reiss, an NFL reporter for ESPN who covers the New England Patriots that became a mentor who accepted him early on in the business. After freelance writing for several football blogs and websites, he was hired by ESPN and worked on its Boston coverage, covering his first NFL Draft at the age of 24 from Gillette Stadium.

“I kind of point to that to where it sort of began,” Yates said. “It was the first opportunity for me to be inside of a professional media setting amongst a bunch of people that I either had grown up reading or had followed on social media; things of that nature. Mike really kind of helped me get my first sort of stepping stone into the world of sports media.”

When he was working in Boston, Yates was the co-host of two ESPN Radio shows centered around football while also writing articles for the outlet’s official website. He gradually made the transition towards covering the league nationally and started to contribute to both NFL coverage and fantasy football content.

Seth Markman, who serves as a vice president of production for ESPN, assisted Yates in understanding the means of comparison and contrast within the dichotomy of these two subject matters. As a result, he discerned what aspects of the sport were applicable between these focuses and began to further excel in his work. Before he was named the host of Fantasy Football Now, Yates was an NFL insider on the show and would cogently fuse these two areas together.

“I can’t say that every single thing that I learned in scouting I have used to this day in fantasy football, but there’s definitely a lot of stuff that I feel has been useful when you’re trying to evaluate sort of the real or not real nature of player performance,” Yates said. “A guy has a monster game in Week 1 and you’re sitting there wondering, ‘Alright, I haven’t really thought about this player that much,’ or, ‘I hadn’t really thought about this player that much. What do we see in this player and how real is or is it not?’”

Yates monitors metrics in real time on Sunday afternoons when he is situated in the ESPN War Room watching games around the league with his colleagues. Located within the network’s Bristol headquarters, he views the action alongside Chris Berman, Adam Schefter and other ESPN personalities, monitoring the latest developments and building camaraderie.

Over the years in the War Room, Yates has vivid memories watching games with ESPN NFL reporter Chris Mortensen, who worked at the network for over three decades. Mortensen stepped down from ESPN last April, but throughout his time at the network he built relationships with his colleagues and was always accessible to them. Earlier this month, Mortensen passed away at the age of 72, news that saddened his colleagues, competitors and sports fans around the world.

“I remember whenever I talked to Mort on the phone, it was always a lot longer than I anticipated or he anticipated it might be, so a call that began with a text that said, ‘Hey, do you have a couple of minutes to catch up?,’ usually turned into about an hour or so,” Yates recalled. “We already do miss Mort a lot, and I think it’s going to feel that much different in the fall on Sundays.”

Although ESPN no longer airs Fantasy Football Now, he continues to share his insights regarding the space on several ESPN television programs and the Fantasy Focus Football podcast. Yates co-hosts the audio offering with Daniel Dopp, Mike Clay and Stephania Bell, all of whom bring unique concentrations to the air that help create a compelling, engaging final product. There are a plethora of outlets producing fantasy football content, but Yates believes that the rapport between the on-air talent ultimately sets them apart.

“If Christian McCaffrey has four touchdowns on Sunday, we’re going to talk about it on Monday, and probably every other podcast will as well,” Yates hypothesized. “What’s going to hopefully make us different is the entertainment value and the camaraderie and the chemistry that makes you say, ‘Yeah, I know I can hear about Christian McCaffrey anywhere, but I really want to hear from the Fantasy Focus crew.’”

With the NFL Draft rapidly approaching, Yates is continuing to extrapolate his insights in that niche of coverage on the twice-weekly First Draft podcast with ESPN senior NFL Draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. The show allows them to deliberate topics at length, satiating the appetite for more detail and protracted discussion for those looking for such content. These podcasts, along with his radio appearances, television responsibilities and the written word, excite Yates and keep him enthused about football coverage going forward.

“While I feel like we have near around-the-clock coverage for football, I just feel like we’re going to have even more and more and more going forward,” Yates said. “The digital space is so great, but it’s an opportunity for all of us to continue to grow, and that league has become must-see TV, 365 days a year.”

From the moment Yates arrived at ESPN, he immediately felt welcomed by people at the company who emitted a sense of gratitude and thoughtfulness. Looking back, he acknowledges that they could have told him to “go kick rocks,” but they did the opposite instead and forged meaningful relationships that have helped enhance the quality and breadth of programming.

With the whirlwind of free agency slowly winding down, Yates is beginning to see the illuminating lights of the NFL Draft stage glowing in downtown Detroit. The filled-in draft board will resemble an answer key of sorts for Yates to review before he moves on to studying the next iteration of the event. Through it all, he will watch as the league receives a new class of budding stars looking to contribute to teams around the league as they work to realize championship aspirations.

“I find pure joy in being a part of the ESPN family and covering football like I do,” Yates said. “No day feels like work for me, and it’s something that has allowed me to meet some incredible people along the way. I’ve been at ESPN for over a decade now, and I feel real camaraderie and feel a real loyalty and bond at the company, and that to me is motivation enough to want to continue to do it for a long, long time.”

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