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Listener Interaction Only Works If It Works For You

“Is less more? Will listener interaction spur more listener interaction? There are so many competing philosophies that I decided it was best to ask hosts and producers what they think.”

Demetri Ravanos

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Two years ago, we did a poll on the site. We asked listeners what they value least when listening to sports radio in the morning. They had four options, which included guests, updates, and basic information like news, traffic, and weather. None of them came close to the top spot.

Overwhelmingly, listeners told us they hate hearing another listener on the air. In a poll with four options, more than 50-percent of the people that responded said callers have the least value to the sports radio audience in morning drive.

Does that mean no one should ever take a phone call? If I am being honest with you, that is my mind set. I have written several times that the only person that cares about what Chet in Dunwoody thinks the Falcons should get back for trading Julio Jones is Chet in Dunwoody.

Not all shows are built the same though. And the issue of how best to use phone calls has changed. Now, we all have to figure out the best way to use fan interaction. For some that will mean phone calls. For others that will mean texts. If this were still 2002, we might be talking about faxes or IMs.

Is less more? Will listener interaction spur more listener interaction? There are so many competing philosophies that I decided it was best to ask hosts and producers what they think.

In the national sports radio landscape, if I say phone calls, you are thinking about one name: Paul Finebaum. I want to hear less calls. He can’t imagine the Paul Finebaum Show without them.

“The callers are the most important element of the show. They are the show,” Paul told me in an email. “There are countless very sports show across the dial and available on many platforms. There are far more knowledge and talented hosts. But I don’t think there is another program in the country that matches ours for the authenticity and passion of the callers.”

Report: Auburn Superfan, Finebaum Caller Tammy Killed In Car Crash
Courtesy: SEC Network

Look, I can’t argue with that. I grew up in Alabama listening to Paul. Some of my memories of sports news unfolding in front of my ears involved his old show. I am talking the pre-JOX days. I go back to the WERC days of Paul reading the Sports Illustrated story of Mike Price’s visit to a Pensacola strip club live on air in absolute shock.

You may jump to the extreme when you think Finebaum callers. Hell, if you aren’t from Alabama and don’t know any of them by name, you probably know Harvey Updyke. But that show is not that show without I-Man and Legend and Tammy and Phyllis and the Jims (both the Tuscaloosa and Crestwood versions). Those are the callers Finebaum is adamant he could not do his show without, the ones that are every bit as important a part of his work family as his wife Linda is to his actual family.

“I’ve the given the eulogy at several funerals of our callers and the thing that has struck me is how the other callers have always shown up, people they only knew as a voice on the radio, but who felt like they were a part of their own family,” he said.

When you think about sports radio in the Northeast, it is hard not to think of phone calls. Cabbies loudly yelling into a brick of a cellphone about why a manager should be fired for the way he handled a pitching change is the stereotype sports radio was built on.

Tyrone Johnson, who produces and co-hosts Mike Missanelli’s afternoon show on 97.5 the Fanatic in Philadelphia, doesn’t like that the entire region is lumped together, but does admit the city’s loud-mouthed fanbase is an asset.

“What works in Boston or New York doesn’t automatically work in Philadelphia and vice versa,” he says. “There are no hard rules, but Philadelphia fans expect interaction in my opinion more than some others.”

Courtesy NBC Sports Philadelphia

Johnson knows that the trend in sports radio is moving away from phone calls. It isn’t something he quite gets though. He struggles to see how eliminating listener opinion makes shows better.

“I think people overthink it by eliminating them completely based on a bit of self importance. While the hosts’ opinion is most important, stating things with no feedback or no pushback to me isn’t great radio either.”

So Johnson, and the rest of the behind the scenes staff on Missanelli’s show make sure the calls they take work for what is happening. He told me that as far as he is concerned, there are two rules for making the air if a listener picks up the phone during afternoon drive.

“#1 the call has to be about the topic. There are shows that sort of do open phones and that makes no sense. #2 calls are wanted but not needed, no individual caller is important enough to derail what is going on. There is a screener and then I have to view the person after that, so it is basically double screened. As far as when to hang up, normally shorter is better within reason. The biggest mistake people make is letting calls go on too long.”

Geoff Calkins doesn’t take callers often. His show on Memphis’s 92.9 ESPN is thought out and strategic. He knows where he wants to go. He has to know that the time is right before he asks for phone calls, but when he does, he is rarely disappointed. It is something he attributes to the makeup of his city.

<strong>Columnist Geoff Calkins discusses the Tigers on our podcast.</strong>
Courtesy: Daily Memphian

He told me that on Tuesday’s show, he had a specific question about the Grizzlies’ playoff performance. That lead to a call from a truck driver working for Baskin Robbins and suddenly, his show was all about ice cream.

“Maybe the best calls come when I ask about the really hard issues, involving race or politics. Or the calls we took during the early days of the pandemic,” Calkins says. “I think most people know which way I lean on these things (I’m a lefty) but the show is respectful enough that people call in with all sorts of perspectives. It struck me that there aren’t a lot of places where that happens these days. Too often, Americans only want to hear from people who mirror their own views. I feel lucky that we’ve been able to do something different. I hope it helps the broader dialogue.”

Should listeners read anything into Calkins not taking a lot of phone calls? Does it say anything at all about how he feels about their opinion? After all, the guy estimates that he takes phone calls “about once a week. And often it’s just for a segment.”

Remember, this is someone that likes asking his audience to think. He wants to hear what they have to say in response to big issues and hard questions. Those don’t come up everyday. When they do though, he makes more time to let the public speak. He used last summer’s protests as an example of when he thought it was right to let listeners steer the ship.

Other times, Geoff Calkins finds other ways to get listener opinions on the air. But that is the key. They have to have opinions and those opinions have to matter. He doesn’t want to ask people to share a thought as a way to kill time.

“We’ll do Twitter polls occasionally, and read the answers as they come in. But we’ll do that, too, strategically. Never just have a poll to have a poll,” he says.

No one I spoke with was afraid to give the listener a voice. No one wanted to hear as much of those voices as Finebaum does though.

“I will always fall on the side of going too long as opposed to being short,” he said. “You never know what the next thing that will come out of a person’s mouth will be. They may have a great sports take or reveal something about their life that affects or influences the entire show. For many, it may be their only time ever on a radio show. It may be one of the most important moments in their life. Not that many calls end up in the Smithsonian. But my attitude as a host is to be insanely curious about every caller, without fear or favor.”

Courtesy: ESPN Images

So maybe listener interaction isn’t useless. Your fans are turning to your show to be entertained. If you do that by turning over the airwaves to other entertaining people, so be it. You’re still accomplishing the end goal and who am I to say boo to that?

I think the key is that everything you do on air has to put you in the best position to best serve your listeners. When you shine, they are more likely to connect to the show. How you use other voices and opinions should almost always be about how each one helps you accomplish your goal from segment to segment and show to show.

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Pregame Shows Have to Stop Ridiculous Pretend Pep Talks

“Audiences want access, but they want real access. Adults playing make believe is the peak of cringe TV.”

Demetri Ravanos

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Lou Holtz, Stephen A. Smith and Jimmy Johnson give pregame pep talks on pregame shows.

ABC caught a lot of deserved heat for its pregame show on Sunday. What was supposed to set the stage for a huge Game 7 between the Knicks and Pacers in the NBA Playoffs was actually something out of Stephen A. Smith’s fantasy. The show was more about the Knicks than it was anything else going on in basketball, but it was more about him than it was about the Knicks.

The network showed Smith’s arrival to the arena. To me, that was the peak example of just how bad the show was. It wasn’t the worst moment though. Sure, showing an analyst’s walk-in alongside each team’s biggest star was a new low in self-indulgence, but it didn’t match the pep talk.

Stephen A. Smith is not the first analyst to give one of the teams playing in the featured game his version of the pep talk. ESPN used to make this a regular feature of College Football Final when Lou Holtz was on the show. We saw it earlier this year on FOX NFL Sunday when Jimmy Johnson delivered an over-the-top speech to the Dallas Cowboys via the television during a halftime report.

I wish I knew whose idea this was. Who was the first producer to tell a former coach or player that they needed to give the audience an idea of what they would be doing in the locker room right now? I’d like someone to point that person out so I could slap the hell out of them.

Audiences want access, but they want real access. Adults playing make believe is the peak of cringe TV. I would rather watch literally anything else.

Even before the ManningCast, networks had learned that the access the audience wants is explanation, not bluster. Look, you won’t find a bigger critic of Urban Meyer as a coach than me, but I will be one of the first to tell you that he breaks down plays and decision making as well as anyone on TV. I understand the chess match between the coaches better after watching Meyer with a telestrator. I trust Nick Saban will bring that same quality, maybe even at a higher level, to College GameDay this season.

The men and women hired as analysts are smart. Regardless of the sport, if you’re hired to be part of a pregame show, chances are you have played the game. You have been in the locker room in these moments. You don’t have to convince the audience. They know it’s true.

Sports media is in a really interesting place. I have written before that I struggle to see how ESPN can justify a raise or a long-term extension to Stephen A. Smith in a landscape where the audience tells us over and over again that the only thing that really makes a difference to them is live games.

Star power matters because networks aren’t giving out the kinds of contracts they once did. Maybe that is why the former players and coaches don’t push back when asked to make fools of themselves in this way. They can tell us it’s about their personal brand, but if you’re doing something the audience isn’t responding to just because it puts you in the spotlight, are you building anything?

Pretend pep talks do not work. Does your respect for someone grow when you watch them get worked up over a situation they have imagined in their head? Probably not.

I have seen some studio shows take a moment and ask the former coach at the desk how they would respond to it. That makes a lot more sense. 

“Coach, the Panthers are headed to the locker room down seven and it can be pinned directly to Bryce Young throwing a pick six earlier this quarter. His rhythm has been off since then. What are you telling the young quarterback right now to get him ready for the second half?”

Analysts are supposed to be experts. The audience is supposed to feel like the analyst’s opinions have more weight than their own. Answers to direct questions give the audience insight.

My problem with so many studio shows is there is a lot of noise and not much being said. Everyone wants me to think the fellas are having a great time, so the laughter is over the top and every highlight is accompanied by a series of catchphrases that have caught on with no one. I’m not saying that I want studio shows to be completely devoid of fun. I just don’t want my time wasted.

That’s all pretend pep talks are. They’re just noise that waste my time. I don’t know a better way to describe what I saw Sunday on ABC.

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John Murphy Wanted to Go Out on His Terms as the Voice of the Buffalo Bills

“I guess I never appreciated the fact that the fans were paying that much attention.”

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Graphic of longtime Bills announcer John Murphy
Courtesy: Buffalo Bills

It’s always hard to say goodbye to a job that you love, especially when it’s under unfortunate circumstances. The Buffalo Bills organization and their many fans throughout Western New York were saddened to find out a couple of weeks ago that longtime Bills radio announcer John Murphy would be stepping away from the play-by-play position after 35 years in the radio booth.  Murphy spent 16 years as a color analyst and 19 years as the play-by-play announcer, but he continues to recover from a stroke that he suffered on January 1st 2023.

For the veteran broadcaster, the reality set in that it was time to step aside.

“I’m disappointed,” said the 67-year-old Murphy during a phone conversation last week with Barrett Sports Media.  “I’m nearing the end anyway, but you’d like to go out on your own terms and finish the way you want to finish and I’m not able to do that.  It’s disappointing but by the same token, there’s no way I can do the games talking the way I currently talk so I think it makes sense.”

Not long after the announcement, there were people, including former players Stevie Johnson, Alex Van Pelt and Ryan Fitzpatrick, who reached out to “Murph” to share their feelings about him.  Murphy also heard from so many fans and that was overwhelming to him to find out just how much he meant to “Bills Mafia.”

“It meant everything really,” said Murphy who was inducted into the Buffalo Broadcasters Hall of Fame in 2019.  “I guess I never appreciated the fact that the fans were paying that much attention.  You do this for so long and your kind of alone with the four or five who are on the air and honestly you don’t think anybody is listening. It’s pretty important, I guess, to people and that makes it fun, and it makes it gratifying for me.”

From a personal standpoint, Murphy was extremely important to me when I was a student at Buffalo State College (now Buffalo State University) from 1985 to 1989.  Nobody in my family had ever been in broadcasting but it was my dream to do it and every young broadcaster needs a mentor.  I’m proud to say that Murphy was one of them during my college years always willing to talk to me when I would see him at games that I covered for WBNY, my college radio station.

Words cannot describe what this man meant to me and my career.

We shared a lot of good times back then, especially when he hosted a sports talk show on WBEN and I would be a frequent phone caller “Peter from Porter Hall at Buff State”.  I can’t tell you how many times I would call in to the trivia contest and the prize always included tickets to a local sporting event and a bucket of chicken wings from “Rooties”, a popular restaurant in the Buffalo area back then.

To this day, it has been an honor and a privilege to call him a friend and to be able to stay in touch.

For Bills fans, it was an honor and a privilege to have a true professional like Murphy in the broadcast booth.  As the color analyst, he worked with legendary Bills play-by-play voice Van Miller from 1984 to 1989 and then again from 1994 to 2003.

“Van was great,” said Murphy.  “I learned so much about not getting in the way of the play-by-play announcer and letting him have his time and enough time to set up the play and to finish the play.  It was great to see him do that, and I learned a lot.  I learned almost everything from Van as far as the right way to do things.  He will never be matched as far as I’m concerned with the play-by-play job he did here.”

Following Miller’s retirement, Murphy slid over to assume the duties as the play-by-play voice in 2004.  It’s never easy to replace a legend, but that’s what Murphy did, and he was well prepared for the task at hand.

“I had huge shoes to fill,” said Murphy.  “I feel like, 19 years later, I’m still working on filling them.  I don’t think I ever matched what he did and the way he painted the words.  It was a great education and a great way to learn how to do it the right way.”

Miller was the Bills’ play-by-play voice through the glory years of going to four straight Super Bowls following the 1990 through 1993 seasons.  After Murphy took over as the “Voice of the Bills,” the great moments were few and far between.  In fact, the Bills suffered through a 17-year absence from postseason play, an era of futility that ended in 2016.

After a long wait, Murphy was finally the voice of a Bills team that was making Buffalo sports fans talking proud again and giving them a reason to shout.

“We had a rough go,” said Murphy.  “I was the voice of the playoff drought.  To break through that threshold and to get in the playoffs each of the last five years now has made all the difference in the world.  It’s a different game when the team is a contender and the Bills have been contenders for five years now so that’s been good and good to see.”

A native of Lancaster, New York and a graduate of Syracuse University, Murphy was able to spend his final seasons with the team calling some incredible moments, many of them that brought Bills fans out of their seats at Highmark Stadium but also a few that ended their seasons before being able to get back to a Super Bowl.

There are a couple of moments that stand out.

“There was Taron Johnson’s interception against Baltimore (AFC divisional playoff 2021) in the playoffs which he ran back 101 yards for a touchdown,” recalled Murphy.  “That was an incredible play.” 

That was a great moment but there was also a sad moment that he will always remember.

“The game that sickened me the most was the loss at Kansas City that went back and forth with Mahomes and Josh Allen,” said Murphy of the classic 2022 AFC Divisional Playoff game won by the Chiefs in overtime 42-36. 

“With 13 seconds to go, Josh had the lead, and they gave up the lead and lost to Kansas City.  That was a bitter loss, but it was really a fun game to work.”

As Murphy steps away from the booth, Chris Brown is expected to be named the new radio voice of the Bills.  In Murphy’s absence, Brown finished up the 2022 season and did play-by-play for the entire 2023 season.

Murphy, who had to replace a legend in Van Miller, believes that Brown is the right man to fill his shoes.

“I’m happy for him,” said Murphy.  “Chris has a great understanding of the way things work in the league and the way players are acquired and signed and he does his homework too.  I think he’s great and will do a great job.”

While Murphy has stepped away from the play-by-play duties, he still hopes to be a part of the Bills’ gameday broadcasts.  If his speech improves by September, the plan is for Murphy to provide one or two-minute features on the pre-game show.

“I hope so,” said Murphy.  “That remains to be seen but I’m hoping that’s the way it goes.”

And so is everyone in Western New York that has been accustomed to hearing Murphy on the broadcasts for so many years.  Aside from the continued excitement about the Bills being a perennial playoff team, Murphy shares in the excitement of the organization and the fans about the new stadium that is currently under construction.

Without an agreement for a new home in the Buffalo area, there was a good chance that the Bills would have been forced to relocate to another market.

“You drive by there and you can sense that this is real and this is happening and the Bills are here to stay,” said Murphy.  “It’s very exciting and very exciting to see that the Bills are implanted in Western New York for years to come now.”

I mean no disrespect to so many other radio play-by-play announcers in the NFL, but I have to admit something. Whether it was my time at SirusXM NFL Radio or my current run at Infinity Sports Network (formerly CBS Sports Radio), I always looked forward to working on an NFL Sunday, Thursday or Monday and using John Murphy’s play-by-play calls on my updates.  As long as the Bills won, I always used his highlights.  I’ll miss those calls (but not the ones when the Bills beat the Jets) and so will Bills fans. 

Here’s hoping for his health to continue to get better and that he could still be a part of the Bills broadcasts in some small way going forward.

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Seller to Seller: Scott Speropoulos, Audacy Memphis

“I was that guy when it’s fourth and long and no time left, give me the ball.”

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Graphic for a Seller to Seller feature with Scott Speropoulos

Sometimes when you meet people, you just know immediately they’re someone you could hang out with, watch a game and have a beer (or two). Scott Speropoulos, the General Sales Manager for Audacy’s four stations in Memphis is one of those. He is high energy, a great talker and comes complete with that great southern charm and accent.

Scott knows a thing or two about media sales, too, something he has been involved with in some capacity for most of his 25-plus year career.  He started in radio as a remote coordinator before going to work for a startup television station. Along the way, he sold print as well, managed in radio, managed in print, was a Director of Sales in television and then the pandemic hit. That’s when Scott decided, “It’s time to come home, I’m back here again.”

At the end of 2020, Speropoulos returned to the group of stations he had been with from 2005-2007, which now includes 92.9 ESPN the dominant sports radio station in the market.

When asked what made him a great seller when he was getting started, he said, “I just got out there and hustled. The Director of Sales from another station called me and said, ‘Everywhere my people go, they are finding your business card, so you are going to come work for us.’ Just getting out there and hustling and getting my name built and my reputation and I tried to meet with as many people as possible.”

Speropoulos talked about what led him to pursue management opportunities after he had been selling television for six years. He said selling the television station started to feel a little bit like “Groundhog Day.” He said he looked to his younger days as an athlete and thought about how well he generally had performed under pressure.

“I was that guy when it’s fourth and long and no time left, give me the ball,” he said. “The TV station had people who had been there for a long, long time and they were not planning on retiring any time soon. And it just so happened the radio stations I had started with needed a National Sales Manager and had me come over and sell for a year and then I got the NSM role…it was just that personal challenge of taking the next step in my career.”

Clearly Speropoulos has seen many changes in our business since his sales career began back in 1997. “Back when I started, it was you buy a spot on TV and you sprayed and prayed,” he said. “Now, we’ve got so many digital capabilities where I can take more of that sniper approach. Tell me exactly who you are looking for and I can bring you those people…I can get those people without you having to waste advertising dollars on people that don’t make sense for you.”

He talks a lot about the culture of the Audacy Memphis office and says the group of air talent he works with do a great job working with the sales team and their clients.  “I am lucky because my guys here, the culture we have here is everyone is pulling on the same rope together, we all want to help each other.”

Speropoulos recently grew his sales team by one and said he found a lot of people applying who seemed scared about commission sales and “wanted everything guaranteed.” He said being a big fan of former Alabama head coach Nick Saban, it is all about discipline with him when it comes to who he is looking for.

“I can teach you sales, but I can’t teach you self-discipline. It’s someone who makes those decisions every day and knows that it’s five o’clock but goes ahead and makes that extra call. And someone who is willing to constantly learn because the world of digital changes every day. There is going to be something new that comes out tomorrow and they’ve got to be able to adapt. We can’t have anyone who is just set in their ways and says they cannot sell digital.

“It’s being disciplined. It’s making those right decisions. You have the autonomy to go to lunch whenever you are ready. Are you going to take that hour and a half lunch, or do you take a lunch where you could make an impact somewhere? Am I going to make cold calls today or am I going to push that off until Friday?

“It’s the person who makes the strong decisions and the tough decisions that hold themselves accountable. I can’t babysit you. I can’t be as tough on you as you are going to be on yourself so that’s what I am looking for, someone who is going to hold themselves accountable, someone who is going to make the tough decisions. Someone who is striving to do better every day.”

92.9 ESPN made a change in afternoon drive a little more than a year ago when Gary Parrish left for a new position and former Memphis Tigers offensive lineman Gabe Kuhn took over. Many times, changes or noise in the industry can rattle a sales team. Speropoulos said he always tells his team to focus on what they can control.

“Focus on the strategy that we have put in place for that specific client and see it all the way through,” he said. “If we stay true to what we put in place that we know is going to work, who cares if the DJ leaves tomorrow. Our goal is to help them grow their business and bring them quality consumers. If we stay true to what we believe in, all that other stuff is noise.”

Scott believes today the key is for sellers to work with clients to drill down on what their ideal target is before creating a campaign and then pick the best products that fit how to reach that person. He also said sellers have to remain on top of the changes and new products that can help their clients.

“There’s going to be new technology that we haven’t even fathomed yet that we are going to be able to utilize. So, it’s staying on top of our toes, staying educated and embracing the change as it comes.”

When asked what he does to keep it fun and rewarding for his sales team he said, “In my group everyone is a little different. Some like trophies, some would rather just go out and have a beer.

“People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. I care about every single person here and I make sure they’re happy and I put their needs ahead of mine. We have a great team. They care about how we achieve as a team.”

They have achieved quite a bit since flipping to sports in 2009 and seem headed for continued success with Scott Speropoulos heading up the sales team. He is all about the team and nobody, as they say in the south, getting ‘too big for his britches.’

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