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How You Lead a Brand Matters, and KNBR is Finding Out the Hard Way

“How you act as a leader should be different than how you present yourself as a host. You’re no longer just representing a show, you are now repping the brand, company, and staff.”

Jason Barrett

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Photo Credit: AP/Jeff Chiu

Let me start by saying, I don’t enjoy writing columns like this. I love the radio business, and see a lot of good in it. I prefer highlighting great performances and ideas or tackling issues that make people think or help them learn. Calling people out doesn’t excite me, but when someone acts immature, stains a brand’s image, questions my credibility, and costs me hours of time over an uninformed, moronic tweet, I’m going to respond.

I left San Francisco on May 31st of 2015, nearly nine years ago. My four years there were some of the best times of my personal and professional life. The sports scene was electric, the views across the Bay were spectacular, and the list of entertainment options were endless. Living in Walnut Creek remains the best place I’ve ever lived.

Professionally, it was great too. I established a lot of relationships in a competitive sports radio market. 95.7 The Game and KNBR were excellent brands with a lot of talent and quality programming. Each were run by large corporations with strong, executive support. I had a dynamite GM in Dwight Walker, which I felt gave us an advantage. Three years later though, Dwight left the business, and things evened out.

Since then, The Game and KNBR have battled frequently for local bragging rights as the market’s top rated outlet. I have no horse in the local radio race so I don’t spend time thinking about who’s doing better content, who’s producing more revenue or who has a better lineup. I’ll let local folks debate those things.

Based on what I’ve experienced and continue to see from afar, I believe both brands have quality talent and valuable play-by-play partnerships. However, Audacy has one major advantage – local leadership. Matt Nahigian is a strong PD. Stacey Kauffman is a sharp GM. That doesn’t guarantee ratings or revenue success but it assures the brand of not getting egg on its face. Unfortunately, the same can’t be said for KNBR.

Last week, I was preparing for our upcoming rebrand on July 15th when a tweet came in to the BSM account. KNBR PD and afternoon host Adam Copeland wanted to know if we’d be reporting KNBR’s ratings win when the sports leader knocked off its counterpart. I was confused because I knew the spring book wasn’t over. Declaring victory over a monthly when there’s still two months left is an odd move, but if the signs are pointing that way for KNBR, good for Adam and all involved. I’m sure the return of Giants baseball is good for station business.

Trying to be professional, I responded to make sure he knew our approach to coverage. I’ve met Adam before on radio row and he’s been cordial. We’ve even featured him and others involved with KNBR on our website. There were zero issues on my end or so I thought.

But rather than moving on, Adam retweeted his initial remarks, and then used a public space to question my credibility. I understand that I competed competitively against KNBR from 2011-2015 but I’ve been fair to both outlets as a publisher since launching BSM in 2015. Hell, the person I worked closest with at The Game (Jeremiah Crowe) became KNBR’s PD for 5 years. The next PD after Jeremiah (Kevin Graham) was also a longtime industry friend. Instead of making an assumption, a simple search of KNBR on the BSM website or on social media would show prior ratings success stories and higher Top 20 finishes.

I have a few simple rules when it comes to ratings reports. First, we do full book reports not monthlies. Bonuses aren’t paid on monthly performance, so calling for media respect after one month shows a lack of knowledge of how things work. Secondly, turn in the Men 25-54 data in on time, and be consistent. Some folks show up in my inbox when the news is good but go into witness protection when it isn’t. Advertisers and media buyers aren’t stupid. They know if your brand is up or down. The people in your building and company know it too. It’s ridiculous to think you’re going to be celebrated when you win but not written about when you don’t.

The reason KNBR hasn’t earned positive ratings stories from BSM lately is because the station hasn’t won the local competition in a while. I feel no joy or sadness over that, those are simply the facts. To be fair, most of those results were before Adam became PD. He was promoted in November, which means he’s only led the station for one full book, the tight winter book loss to The Game. That made the public cry for credit more strange. If this is how you respond after one book and a monthly, what happens after two or three?

After wondering why Adam chose this approach, I looked at the tweet that stirred it up. I was beyond disappointed with other responses I saw. Humor or a sarcastic remark over the air or on the socials is fine. Heck, it makes things more fun sometimes. But insulting everyone who questions or criticizes you, is a bad look. If you just got promoted, and are trying to show you can lead, why would you push your audience away? Do you think people in the company are going to see this and say ‘we’re proud of our PD and the way he connects with our listeners?’

When you’re given the privilege of leading a respected brand like KNBR, the audience is going to tell you what they don’t like. They’ll question your decisions. They may even take a shot at you for things you say or that the company does. It comes with the position. If you act like a businessman, and focus on growing your fanbase and revenue, you’ll be fine. If you act like a host who isn’t thinking like a leader, this is what you do.

How you act as a brand leader should be different than how you act as a host. You’re no longer just representing yourself and your show, you are now repping the entire brand, company, and staff. Advertisers want to feel good about who they’re in business with. Professionals in your building and elsewhere in the market are watching to see how you conduct yourself. Your crew is depending on you to set a good example, and have their backs. You may think that stuff doesn’t matter, but it does.

Most large market stations don’t have success with on-air talent in program director roles. That’s because too often the individuals hired to do both jobs focus on hosting, not managing. GMs tend to look at the potential salary savings from combining roles rather than taking into account the importance of strong programming leadership.

Cumulus employs many great people. Some of them are on the air at KNBR, others like Bruce Gilbert, Dave Milner, Pierre Bouvard, Paul Mason, Dan Mandis, Pete Mundo, and Allison Warren are top notch professionals who I hold in high regard. They don’t operate this way nor would they condone it if it occurred on their watch.

I’ve disagreed with many industry people over the years, friends included. Regardless of the issue, I’m always accessible. My phone number and email address are at the bottom of my emails. I’m also on all social media platforms. A quick call or email is preferred to address issues but taking aim publicly on social media and not reaching out is fine too. Just understand that when you go that route, I will bite back.

I live in New York now but I know what it takes to do the PD job at a high level in the Bay Area. Beating your chest after a good month after two years of defeats, and insulting listeners, isn’t what I’d recommend. I disagree with Adam’s social media approach as a PD, but do consider him a good host, and if KNBR wins future books, and data is provided, we will share their story. I’m not excusing Adam’s poor decisions, but the GM’s office shares some blame here too. Behavior like this reflects on everyone involved with a brand, not just the PD. This didn’t just start last week. That means it’s either not been addressed or isn’t being taken seriously.

Hiring a first-time PD to run three radio stations in a top-5 market, and expecting them to also co-host a 4-hour afternoon show is asking a lot. Issues are going to come up. Bruce Gilbert is in the company, and one of the best human beings and developers of leaders in the business, but if a PD is going to embarrass themselves and the brand on social media, that’s not on him. People have to want to listen and adjust, and internal accountability needs to be prioritized.

KNBR is a great, legendary brand with decades of ratings and revenue success. There’s a standard expected from the station that calls itself ‘The Sports Leader’. Unfortunately, that standard isn’t being met. It’s being replaced by an approach that has people raising questions, and listeners wondering why they’re supporting a brand that doesn’t value them.

Barrett Media is Hiring

July 15th is when we officially change our URL to BarrettMedia.com and begin adding music radio, tech, and podcasting content. The additional content means we need more help. I’m going to add a features reporter to conduct conversations with broadcasters, a few experienced music radio columnists, and an editor to tackle daily news. I’m also planning to feature a few guest columns. If you work in music radio and love to write, send a resume and writing sample to [email protected].

Thumbs Up:

Doug Gottlieb/Fox Sports Radio: Dave and Garrett raised valid questions last week, but when else have we seen a college basketball coach do FT sports radio? We haven’t. That means there’s a chance for history to be made. Doug hosts a 2-hour daily national show. Can he do both well? Time will tell. But if I’m FSR, why wouldn’t I wait and see how it goes before moving on from a key talent? Doug used to work on a 6-hour nightly radio show while balancing TV work, travel, family, etc.. Maybe he’ll fail but he has tons of energy and knows how to engage an audience. I give him props for trying. Given the rise of remote broadcasts, if Gottlieb’s prepared, FSR will be just fine.

Pat McAfee: The level of entertainment from Pat and his team is impossible to not get sucked into. Earlier this week they bought a car through an Indianapolis auction, and on paper, it had nothing to do with anything relevant, but if you were watching, it was impossible to turn away from. It reminded me of Anchorman 2 when Ron Burgundy decides to do stories about America being the greatest country in the world. Sometimes, the entertainment is just really damn good. Last week, that was the case on the McAfee show.

Marc Ryan: How does a host ingratiate themselves effectively to a new city and audience? By leaning into the things that they appreciate. Ryan may be guilty of a Dave Portnoy imitation, but wisely took a simple moment and turned it into a smart, social connection with Detroit fans. Judging by the responses, he’s making new friends quickly. Great to see that.

Thumbs Down

ESPN NBA Broadcast Team: Individually, Mike Breen, Doris Burke, and JJ Redick are talented. Collectively, they lack chemistry. Breen, Jeff Van Gundy, and Mark Jackson had it, and made NBA playoff games feel big and fun. If solid is the new standard, I guess this is fine, but I expect better from ESPN. The current crew is not on par with the network’s other broadcast teams for big sporting events. Hopefully it gets addressed during the NBA offseason.

NFL: VP of Broadcast Planning Mike North said this week that the league took into account Taylor Swift’s U.S. tour dates when making the 2024 season schedule. Having Taylor at games is good for league business. I get that. But this is the largest, most lucrative professional sports league in America with every television and streaming outlet interested in airing its product. The NFL shouldn’t be working around anyone or anything let alone admitting that publicly.

Google: If you’re not following what’s happening with the company’s plans for search, you need to educate yourself. Read this. The company’s plans are to incorporate AI into search, creating big issues for publishers. If search and social media continue to make it harder to find content, brands better embrace the outlets they own and operate (radio-television) and make sure a direct relationship is established with their audiences or they risk losing relevance.

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BSM Writers

Missing ‘The Little Things’ Can Make Your Station Look Really Bad

Some folks really need to take a good hard look at their site and ask themselves if it represents what they want their station to be.

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Photo of a sports radio studio

I hate that this is a topic in 2024, but it seems the more I look at different sports stations online, the more I see a problem across the industry. Some stations, or companies as a whole, are not represented well at all online. Whether it be the look or feel of their website, the information available on it, the ease or lack thereof of streaming and podcasting or connecting with the talent. All of these are ‘the little things’ that can go a long way with your audience.

It all starts with your station website. And the fact that I have to take time to write about what a sports radio station should have on its website in 2024 is not good. Some folks really need to take a good hard look at their site and ask themselves if it represents what they want their station to be.

Anyone should be able to log on to a radio station website and immediately be able to get certain information. What shows air on the station, what time and give me some information about and ways to connect with your hosts. I should also be able to easily access the ‘podcast’ or replay of a show and there should be titles and descriptions which give me information so that I can choose what segments or topics I want to listen to.

Putting a so-called podcast up, which is the full three or four hours of a show, and not telling users what is in it they might want to listen to is a huge miss. It shows people in our business do not understand how people consume content these days. They want it quick, they want to be sold on what they will get out of it if they listen. It needs to be, you know, easy.

Kudos to Audacy in this regard. They do the best job of having their stations set up so that a person can truly listen on demand. You can go to any of their stations and pick a show and most of the time you will have information about every segment that has been done. Want to hear what the hosts had to say but don’t care about the guests they have on? Perfect, listen to the segments where the hosts gave strong opinions. Don’t care about football but want all the baseball that you can get? Just choose the baseball segments. It’s how it is supposed to be.

On the flip side you have several stations where you can log on to their website and not find what you are looking for.

Take, for example, today when I wanted to listen to a station’s morning show, but I wasn’t able to listen while it was live. I typed the station name into my Google machine and got the link to their webpage.

There was a drop-down menu and I clicked ‘Podcasts.’ This took me to a page which is dated November 5, 2015.

I looked at the social media channels for the station and I found a Linktree. One of the links to click said ‘Podcast’ and so I clicked that, and it takes me to a page with a completely different URL from the radio station.

I scrolled down and found the show I was looking for and took a deep breath as it loaded as I was glad to have finally figured out how to listen to the show on-demand. Then the page loads and I saw a bunch of episodes to listen to but unfortunately, they were from February.

Not having the podcasts easily accessible, not having them posted by segment, not having host bios and not having links to their social media are unacceptable in 2024. If your goal is to get new listeners to your station, you are making it incredibly difficult for people who might want to know more about your station and talent or who want to listen to your programming.

As for the rest of the content on the website, I am going to save that for another column, but if what you’re showing your audience is aggregated content from a national source with your local tags, that is another completely missed opportunity to connect with your audience.

While I am on the subject of things that are not the main programming, some stations really need to take a listen to their sports updates. From the intros to the music to the voices being used to what they are saying should be examined. I am a huge update fan, mostly because I believe they are great for sales but also because people still want that quick info, so they are more knowledgeable around the water cooler. How did the local teams do yesterday, what is happening today I need to know about, remind me to tune in to something later, hit the sponsor and get back to the hosts. No matter how good X and the internet are, you still can’t get all your local sports news in 60-90 seconds like you can on a sports update.

I hear several stations daily that air updates, but it is clear the station does not value what is being presented or they would find people better prepared to do them. If you cannot afford to have someone who knows what to present and can do it in a manner that is listenable and provides the service to the listeners that it should, figure out some other way to do them. Perhaps one of your hosts needs to do them or work them into the programming of the show. Whatever it is, don’t just let it be a throw-away piece of content.

I jokingly refer to these items as ‘the little things,’ but these are important. Especially your websites and social interaction with your listeners. If we cannot do the very basics of having a website with easy to access live audio, easy to find podcasts and easy to locate information about the hosts and ways to connect with them, what are we doing?

I encourage all managers to take some time, as soon as possible, and go through your station sites. See if these things can be done easily, see if the information is up to date. Look at it from the standpoint of the users or someone new coming to your site.

It’s time to clean up ‘the little things.’ Everyone is busy, but we can’t be too busy when it comes to making stations sound better and making them more user friendly.

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The Best Thing I Heard/Watched Recently

I am locked in on FX’s Clipped: The Scandalous Story of LA’s Other Basketball Team which is being shown on Hulu. The first two episodes came out together and now they are being dropped weekly on Tuesdays. It’s not nearly as good as the Lakers shows, but that is only fitting I suppose.

As I have said before, give me all of these behind-the-scenes shows. I realize you are generally only getting one side of a story and things are changed up for television, but I will watch every one of these kinds of shows they want to make. Sports. Nostalgia. Drama. Inject it into my veins!

You can learn more about the show and see a trailer by clicking here.

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In Case You Missed It

Earlier this week, Peter Schwartz profiled Marc Ryan, who just recently started at 97.1 The Ticket in Detroit. Ryan had been at WYRD in Greenville, South Carolina. What is unique about this story is that as Schartz wrote, “For each of the last 14 years of his career, [Ryan] carried with him a Post-it note as a reminder of where he ultimately wanted to land. On that note were three all-sports radio stations that were his dream situations and those were 97.1 The Ticket in Detroit, WFAN in New York and 670 The Score in Chicago.” 

Congratulations to Marc for making his dream a reality and best of luck in Detroit.

You can read the full feature by clicking here.

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BSM Writers

Meet the Bettors: Ben Mintz, Barstool Sports

“The thing I always say about Barstool is take what you do seriously, but don’t take yourself too seriously.”

Demetri Ravanos

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Meet The Bettors - Ben Mintz

One of the toughest things to do when you create gambling content is to get others invested in your wins and losses. If I don’t know you, why would I root for or against you? Somehow though, Ben Mintz has broken through.

He’s one of the many gamblers on the Barstool Sports payroll. Maybe it’s being introduced amidst a losing streak. Maybe it’s his comeback story. I would guess what makes most people take an interest in Mintz’s money is Mintz himself. He’s just genuinely likable and easy to talk to.

Mintz, as he is known to Barstool fans, is the focus of the latest Meet the Bettors column presented by Point to Point Marketing. We talk about that aforementioned losing streak, the past and future of America’s interest in poker, and why the brick-and-mortar sportsbooks will someday be a thing of the past.

Demetri Ravanos: We’re both SEC guys. Probably around the same time too. I graduated from Alabama in 03. Around that time, we all knew people who were finding ways to make bets. They probably thought they had an advantage over the bookmakers because they were in the heart of college action and living and breathing it.          

Do you think those advantages still exist for college sports fans? There are so many games across so many sports. Is there anywhere a dedicated fan has an advantage over the books?

Ben Mintz: Well, I’m not like the biggest college basketball guy, but the early part of college basketball season. It’s especially in the smaller schools. If people really focus on it, I’ve heard that there are big edges. There’s just so much information for the oddsmakers to keep up with from the transfer portal especially. It’s just so hard to handicap that stuff being in season with 300-and-something teams.          

I think there’s a little bit of an edge in the college baseball stuff still, just because they’ve only been doing these lines for a few years. The oddsmakers are still just trying to figure out how to properly handicap it, so I think there’s a little bit of edge there.         

DR: When you were on local sports radio in Louisiana, how much of this were you able to talk about, even if you were just using it as context for how much of a favorite a team might be? 

BM: All the time. I’ve been betting on sports for a long time now. I’m in my 40s, and this was always a big part of my brand, even when it was a little taboo. I was doing line segments, breaking down games, making picks. That was always a big part of what I did.           

I mean, it’s a fascinating part of the industry. And as long as you do it responsibly, I think it just makes everything more interesting.           

I love college baseball stuff and I’ve been firing the NCAA Tournament. I’ve got a big futures bet on NC State at 35/1 right now that I’m loving. I’m going to Omaha. I’m super into it. I always have been and it’s always been a big part of my brand. 

DR: So as a gambler, obviously you always want to win, but when it comes to creating content, especially for a brand like Barstool, is it better if you lose? 

BM: Well, I think the thing with me is, I was a professional poker player from 2006 to 14, and I played a lot of high stakes poker and in some of the biggest tournaments in the US and did really well. I mean, I made a living at poker for eight years. Sports gambling stuff is really fun to me.

I think kind of the biggest thing with that is you’ve got to look yourself in the mirror and say, “am I doing this to make money or am I doing this for entertainment?” And I do it for entertainment, so I’m not like the biggest player. I bet like 50 bucks a unit and I just enjoy it.     

The biggest mistake, and I make this mistake all the time because I’m doing it for entertainment, is you can bet on too many games. If you’re going to do it and you want to do it at the top level, you’re looking at a full college football board on Saturday night, and then you’re betting like 3 to 6 games in the NFL.           

Look at the whole board, but only bet like 2 to 4. It’s all about being selective and then going big on the ones you really like and getting a few on because it’s kind of similar to the casino thing. If you’re betting 20 or 25 games in a day, I don’t care who you are, the juice is gonna catch up to you. The style to win, if you’re really like, “hey, I’m doing this to make money,” it’s about being selective and aggressive. 

DR: Was there ever a change in the way you guys could play with losses?  Did the content you could create around losing picks change when Dave sold to Penn National or change back after he reacquired the company? 

BM: Well, I mean, when I was getting started with Barstool, the first thing that really got me going my first summer was my historic college baseball losing streak. During that time, I went like two-for-eleven in Omaha. I got so cold. There was also an issue in college baseball in its infancy with lines. I didn’t know what I was doing or how to handicap it.           

The biggest mistake I was taking too many favorites. When you look at college baseball’s middle bats being the great equalizer, there’s a ton of underdog value. I think what happens a lot is, Vegas makes the favorites too much of a favorite.  That summer I didn’t know that. My content blew up because I was losing so many bets. As far as the content goes, you know, you’d rather be red hot or ice cold. The worst thing you could be is like 4-5, you know? Nobody cares if you’re in the middle.

The thing I always say about Barstool is take what you do seriously, but don’t take yourself too seriously. I mean, you’re going to get roasted in the public eye. Deal with it. It’s been happening for four years to me.          

What I’ve noticed with the Barstool thing that’s so interesting to me is like, you look at what happens on Twitter or Reddit. You can’t overanalyze that stuff because in real life, I mean, I’ve gone around the whole country now with Barstool. I’ve had like 3 or 4 negative interactions with people in 3 or 4 years. That’s it, you know? And so, it’s all like super positive in the flesh. These people just get behind the keyboards and you know, they’re just not afraid to let the fur fly. 

DR So you mentioned poker. I want to ask you about a couple of your experiences because you’ve gotten to experience poker in two very different realities. So let’s start with the most recent. During that time between when Penn let you go and before Dave rehired you, I know you were doing some events for PokerGo. That kind of business used to advertise all over ESPN and every other sports broadcast. What is the health of the poker-centric sites and businesses in 2024? 

BM: Well, the online side of it is not doing as well, but for live poker, the numbers have never been bigger. I think a lot of it was, coming out of Covid, people missed it.           

I’m actually heading out to Vegas on June 29th for the World Series of Poker. I’ll be out there and it’s all around you. I’m playing a few warm-up events, and I’m playing my ninth World Series of Poker main event. I’m playing the last day on Saturday, July 6th.          

Live poker, I mean, it’s not just crushing in Vegas. It’s crushing everywhere. The online stuff is still lagging way behind because, there are a few states where it’s legal, like Pennsylvania, Delaware, Michigan, New Jersey and Nevada, but that’s not the whole country.           

Online poker was so great from like 2003 or 4 to 2011. You had the whole world playing together, so you got such a massive player pool. Then when the government tried to  crack down on it, it’s never been the same. There are a few sites that operate illegally, that people play on that are pretty big, but honestly, the online thing’s just, you know, I maybe play a couple times a year, but it’s just I’m not really that into it anymore. 

DR: Are a lot of the guys you’re going to be at the table with for the World Series of Poker, will they have action on sports as well? 

BM Yeah, most poker players are down to gamble because you’re kind of doing it for a living and just looking for edges and stuff. You see some, you know, real heavy football and sports betting guys I play poker with, for sure. There’s definitely a ton of that.           

You know, the poker sportsbook thing kind of go hand-in-hand. Poker rooms are always right by the sportsbook. They’re kind of first cousins in a way I would say.

DR: So the catalyst for that big boom, obviously, was how much ESPN invested in the World Series of Poker back in the early 2000s and started airing the main event on ESPN, obviously on delay. Do you think that poker can enjoy something like that again now that gambling in general has become less taboo? 

BM: I think the big thing with poker, you see this big push nationwide for sports betting and poker is just not that big of a business. I’m not saying that the poker world’s still not big, but, you know, there isn’t that much of a push to get it going nationally and, you know, they no longer have the World Series on ESPN. Now they tape it for CBS Sports.           

You mentioned PokerGo. Those guys keep this thing going. I mean, if you like poker, you pay 15 bucks a month and they’re the ones that live broadcast all these World Series of Poker final tables every night. I worked with them for six weeks last summer, and I just can’t say enough about what they do for the poker scene. 

DR: So let me ask you this in relation to something that I talked about with Mike Francesa last week. I asked him about the legalization of sports betting going everywhere and what that has done for horse racing, which he loves. He said that horse racing is a sport that can’t get out of its own way. It does not know how to grow a new fan base. Is that similar to what you’re seeing at these World Series of Poker tables, or are young players coming to it all the time? 

BM: You know, there’s still young blood coming into the game. I think the big thing about poker when you draw the World Series is you still get the international element. The European Poker Tour blew up over the last ten years. A lot of the best players in the world are out of Europe. Those kids, Germany? They’re on a level that I mean, it’s crazy how good they are.        

I think that’s what’s helping drive that growth of poker is just that, you still see kids in the United States get into it, but it’s not like it was during the boom when everybody was playing online and came up. You know, a lot of college kids came up through online poker. Now, I think it’s become such an international thing.           

When you play the World Series, I mean, the amount of Europeans that are around for the WSOP, heck, there’s like Brazilians and Argentineans. You get people from South America coming over, too. So, I think that’s what’s driving the worldwide growth.          

In the United States, it’s kind of interesting. Now, there are some pockets of places that are very random. They get these huge events. Like Cherokee, NC, which is over by Asheville. I mean, they have four World Series of Poker circuit events a year. They get 12 to 15 hundred people for them. I went to Firekeepers Michigan, up in Battle Creek last month, and they got 2800 people at a $1,000 event. You see that also in Grant, Oklahoma, north of Dallas. Those Oklahoma tournaments always pull Texas people. You see numbers like that returning. I mean, it’s still doing extremely well.

What’s interesting about poker is everybody’s all about that World Series of Poker dream, because that’s what they see on TV. I love the World Series main because it’s got a brand name like Super Bowl or The Masters, but like a lot of the World Series is extremely overrated. There’s no way to hold a field of 7,000 people. It’s a numbers game. I mean, only nine make the final table.

DR: The poker experience makes me wonder about sportsbooks. As poker became harder to play online, people had to go back to casinos, but the opposite is happening for sports bettors. A physical sportsbook is a great experience, but people will choose the ease of betting online nine times out of ten. Do you think we will ever see physical books go away or is the offering unique enough that they will always have some kind of demand?

BM: I think it’s going to keep fading. Obviously when Nevada was the only place you could do it legally, that was always the big thing – going out there. But, you know, a lot of these same companies have the apps, MGM and Caesars. I guess they feel there’s still value, but I think what you’re going to see is them fade more and more because it’s just an online world now. Like you said, just being able to fire on the apps and the convenience of it.           

A lot of these casinos are in random locations and stuff too. You know, people are just trying to fit it in their day-to-day lives with their families and jobs and all that kind of stuff. Having it on your phone, is a game changer. I think it’s going to continue becoming more and more digital, especially as more and more states legalize. 

To learn more about Point-To-Point Marketing’s Podcast and Broadcast Audience Development Marketing strategies, contact Tim Bronsil at [email protected] or 513-702-5072.

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Sports Broadcasting Can Be a Family Affair

Sports are such a generational activity.

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Screengrabs from WTBS and CBS Sports
Screengrabs: WTBS and CBS Sports

It’s Father’s Day this weekend, a time to celebrate and recognize all the dads out there. Growing up it was always my dad taking me and my brother to the park to throw us extra batting practice. He coached our Little League teams and was seemingly always there. It was my dad that took me to my first baseball game. 1972, Wrigley Field, Cubs and Giants. He took me to my first hockey game. 1974, Chicago Stadium, Blackhawks and Bruins. I have special memories of those games and times.

Sports are such a generational activity. Passed on from grandparents to parents and to their kids. Sometimes covering sports is the same. There have been many father/son combinations that have called games, either with the same team or not, either in the same sport or not. It has to be a pretty special thing for all involved, realizing the significance. A few years ago, I featured a few father/sons and in one case grandparent combinations in honor of the day. A lot of those folks are still calling games. Some have moved on to retirement.

The names may have changed in some cases, but the story or stories have not. It can’t be easy to grow up the son of a broadcaster, especially early in life. Parents have to miss birthdays, graduations and a lot of ‘firsts’ that come along with growing up. Strangely enough, what separated them, can bring them together. A better understanding of what dad does for a living. A better understanding of the time away. So, let’s get on to some of these popular combinations. I’m going to highlight some of them, and this time around it’s not limited to only baseball.

Noah and Ian Eagle

Ian Eagle is one of the busiest guys in broadcasting. This past March he called his very first Final Four and NCAA Men’s Basketball Championship Game. He was excellent in that role, taking over the spot from the legendary Jim Nantz. The elder Eagle also calls NFL on CBS and the NBA on Turner Sports. He is also the television voice of the Brooklyn Nets on the YES Network.

Noah is starting to make a name for himself in the industry. After brief stints at Fox and CBS, he joined NBC last February to become the play-by-play announcer for the newly acquired Big Ten Saturday Night package, as well as the Big Ten Basketball package on Peacock. The younger Eagle was also tabbed to call US Men’s and Women’s basketball games during the upcoming 2024 Summer Olympics in Paris. Noah also just debuted as the lead voice for NBC Sports/Peacock at the 2024 French Open tennis championships.

The natural question would be, how tough it is to live up to expectations, considering that his father has reached the pinnacle of the profession.  Noah seems to have a pretty good attitude about things and is trying to be his own person even with the pressure.

“I think it’s there, I think it’s true of any profession if you follow a parent — if you’re in the limelight, if you’re not in the limelight — there are people that are going to be around you within that profession more than anything else that are going to look at you and say, ‘Well you better be successful,” or, “You better do it this way, you better do it that way.’” Eagle told The New York Post in December 2023. “My philosophy has always been I’m going to put in 100 percent effort, maybe even in my thought process, 150 percent, whatever that looks like, maximum effort into my preparation, maximum effort into my relationships that I build, and then just focus on what I can do — which is go out there and perform at a high level.” he added.

“I know it sounds cliché, but to me if you can control what you can control, and that is doing the job at your highest level, whatever that is, then you’ll live up to your own expectations.”

The Eagle’s both succeed in bringing a little personality and humor into their respective broadcasts.

Both have called Brooklyn Nets games.

Marv and Kenny Albert

One of the more versatile duos on the list, Marv and Kenny Albert have called a multitude of sports, sometimes in the span of a single week. They’ve both done radio and television and have styles that are unique to each.

Marv got started at the age of 19. Working his way up, starting as a young ball boy for the Knicks. He managed to strike up a friendship with the legendary New York sportscaster Marty Glickman, who took a liking to Albert and his passion for sports. Albert would get a chance to fill in for Glickman on several Knicks and Rangers games on WCBS Radio before he was 20.

“That was kind of ridiculous, especially when I go back and listen to the tapes.” Albert told the Sports Broadcasting Hall of Fame.

Marv is best known for his work at NBC, on their NFL and of course NBA coverage.

Kenny is also a multi-sport play-by-play man. The younger Albert does baseball, football, basketball, hockey and the Olympics. He’s seemingly on the air all the time. Albert works for FOX, TNT and used to call hockey on NBC. He also works on the New York Rangers radio network.

Now as far as growing up with one of the most popular sportscasters of his time?  “I couldn’t have asked for a better teacher,” Kenny said of his father. “I tagged along as often as he would allow and I picked up a lot by osmosis.” he writes in his book, A Mic For All Seasons.

“I also received a tape recorder from my parents for my birthday when I was about five or six years old. I would set up my room like a radio or TV studio. I would start calling games into the recorder.”

Harry, Skip, Chip and Chris Caray

The family with the longest lineage, now spanning 4 generations, the Caray’s. Harry started it all. His radio work in St. Louis (with Jack Buck) led him to television stints with the White Sox and Cubs in Chicago. Harry’s son Skip was next to be on the air. Skip joined the Atlanta Braves broadcasts in 1976 and stayed there until his death in 2008. Skip, like Harry, became popular outside his ‘home market’ because the games were broadcast on Superstation WTBS.

Now a second father/son duo has emerged from the Caray family tree. Chip Caray and his son Chris Caray are both major league broadcasters. Chip has been around for a little while, starting with the Cubs in 1998. He was supposed to work with his grandfather, but unfortunately Harry passed away during spring training of that year. Chip has done work for the Atlanta Braves and now is with the St. Louis Cardinals.

This year, Chris was hired by the A’s to do some of their television games. He just so happened to be working a game, when the Cardinals (and Chip) came to Oakland in mid-April. Chip and Chris met on the field before the game and spoke to the Associated Press that night.

“I’m the old guy now and I remember when I was 24 and I got my first chance to do this and my dad was in the other booth on the radio side in Atlanta,” said Chip. “And it’s very different having the torch being passed instead of being passed to you. I’m really excited and humbled and honored that Chris is here. He’s doing a great job already and I’m really excited about where he’s going to take this family business as we call it.”

Only a couple of weeks into his new job, Chris was calling a game with his dad sitting a couple of booths away. “I’m grateful and fortunate enough that they picked this series to be my fourth game. I can’t really even put it into words to tell you the truth.” he told the AP.

The Caray’s “family business” could grow by one soon. Chris’ twin brother Stefan is also calling games. In fact, Chris and Stefan both called games for the Amarillo Sod Poodles the past two years calling the games of the Diamondbacks’ Double-A affiliate.

Happy Father’s Day to all the dads out there, enjoy yourself, you deserve it.

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