For this sales profile we head way out west to 95.7 The Game in San Francisco, which has been in the sports format since 2011. Janet Rogers has sold a lot of radio in her day, both in English and Spanish, but this was her first foray into the sports format. As you’ll learn, it doesn’t seem to matter which format she is in, the common denominator has been success.
DG: How did you get started in radio?
JR: I met the Public Affairs director for KCBS Radio way back in the day in the early ‘80s. I met her at an event and she said I should apply for a job at KCBS because I’ve always loved radio. I applied for a receptionist job and the interviewer said, “You don’t want a receptionist job, you would never stay in that job!” Fortunately, about six months later, I got a call from the CBS National Rep Office and Rocky Cosgrove who ran the FM National Sales Office. It was a two-person office and Rocky taught me all about radio and radio sales, how to put a program together and how to conceptualize an idea and sell it.
I then got a job inside CBS at a classic rock station and then was recruited to work for KBLX radio where I spent nine years working with Barry Rose and Harvey Stone, two legendary names in the San Francisco market and ended up being Retail Sales Manager. Then, I was recruited to be a Regional Sales Manager working for a group of stations that covered the San Jose area. At one point, I worked for five owners in one year, going through a lot of changes during consolidation. I worked in Spanish radio for a little bit and then came back to general market. It’s been a long and interesting ride, selling a lot of different formats. I feel very fortunate to have started my career in radio when I did and worked in radio when I did and its led to, coincidentally, working with the CBS stations again because of the merger with Entercom.
DG: When you first started, do you remember how long it took you to really feel comfortable?
JR: It probably took me a good six months. I had to get over the sheer terror of picking up the phone and calling to talk to someone, that was not natural for me. I had to understand how to find a good, qualified prospect and that takes some time. I won a new business selling contest at the end of my first year of selling. I did that because I had done a lot of prospecting and was able to close some business that had never been on the station before and some that had never been in radio before. After six months I really started to feel like I had something to really offer the customer.
DG: Do you do things today to continue to make yourself better?
JR: I feel like I really do. One of my former sales managers taught me a long time to ask yourself, “What did you do right and what would you do different next time?” That is something that always stuck with me. I love that, and I still use it to this day. I had to learn how to sell sports when I started here, because I had never sold sports before. There are things that I’m still learning from veteran sellers that have sold sports their entire careers such as the types of targeting you can do and the types of programming and integration you can do. So, asking myself those questions, associating with people that are successful and bring new ideas to the table help make me better. I am a big believer that you can teach old dogs new tricks as long as the old dog wants to learn the tricks!
DG: What makes you good at what you do?
JR: I am a great listener, I ask great questions and I really work at developing relationships. People can buy from anyone and the differentiations can be so small. I truly believe that at some level they are really buying the trust and faith and relationship they have with me. I’ve had some customers for a very long time and I truly get a kick out of having success for the customer, that gives me a great deal of job satisfaction and joy. The ability to look someone in the eye and really feel like we’ve done a good job for them.
DG: Do you think having support from programming is more important when selling sports versus another format?
JR: Absolutely, because of the ability of product integration. It’s so much more robust than music stations. The ideas can just flow. It’s so important to have those relationships, not just so you can get things done, but also to tap in to that creativity of your co-workers and people from other departments. I am super fortunate that I work for a General Sales Manager who is very creative and has great ideas. We have a new program director that has a willingness to partner with sales and understands that it’s all a circle – if sales is happy, programming is happy and if programming is happy, sales is happy. I think its hugely important in sports and when it works it’s such a great tool.
DG: What is the main difference in selling play-by-play versus regular programming?
JR: With play-by-play, you find the fan! Finding that fan and allowing them to peek behind the curtain and the opportunity to bring their business and co brand and partner with one of their favorite teams or players – that is really fun and can be very productive.
DG: What’s the main reason you’ve noticed of why new sellers don’t work out in our industry?
JR: I don’t know if there is any one reason, but a lot of it is not having the understanding of how hard it is to do this, especially the first couple of years. Also, you have to have a strong manager that is willing to roll up their sleeves and get in the trenches and guide you to help with ideas, overcome objections and close business. I have been really lucky that I have had some great managers. Also, it’s having co-workers that are willing to share their experiences and pay it forward the way they were mentored and molded. If you don’t have that supportive work environment and some place to come back to and be able to ask questions and get help, it is really challenging to do this.
DG: What piece of advice would you give to new sellers in sports media?
JR: To understand the passion that drives your listeners, so you can connect with that – the personalities, the partner teams – and to understand and tap in to that passion so you understand why people are listening and then formulate your strategy around that. You really have to understand your product and be an evangelist for the product. Be passionate – that authenticity really comes through to people. They can feel that when you are passionate and believe in it.
DG: Your manager told me that you are great at finding what keeps business owners up at night. How would you advise others to be good at that?
JR: I think it goes back to what I said I was good at – listening. I can really shut up and listen to what is being said and then ask good follow up questions. You can’t stop, you have to keep digging one level deeper as you build that relationship. When I go to a new business meeting, I start very broad and then let the conversation dictate where it goes. Just keep digging and then get the consensus and ask if you heard what they said correctly so they agree that it is a problem and now you come up with the solution.
DG: I was told you are the station’s top biller, so what continues to drive you?
JR: My credibility and my ability to help and to be a team leader, that is my biggest driver. Sometimes that comes with being the top biller, but let’s face it you have to be somewhere near the top to be a leader. The most important thing for me is to feel like I have the respect of my teammates and that they feel like they can learn things from me and I can offer knowledge and experience.
DG: How do you feel about the state of our industry?
JR: On the product side, for those companies that believe in live and local – I say keep going. The word relevant is so meaningful – you have to be relevant in people’s lives and just because the vehicle has been around a long time, doesn’t mean the content is still relevant. The companies that aren’t doing live and local, I think they are doing a disservice to themselves and most importantly to our industry. From the personnel side, I think their needs to be a much stronger effort to involve younger people in this career. We really have to mentor younger people. It used to be okay to throw the yellow pages at people, and if you’ve been in this business a long time you remember that. People could do that and find new business and afford it and grow and make a living, but I don’t believe that is the case anymore. I think people have to be mentored and trained and given an opportunity to have a stable financial base that allows you to not flip out after three months and wonder if you can afford to stay with this job. I think our industry needs to take a really hard look at that and understand what it costs to do business these days.
What They Say:
Janet is the top biller at the station because she finds ways to build meaningful relationships with the ultimate decision makers. She is relentless in finding out exactly what is keeping that business owner up at night. She uses their managers, spouses or any other source she needs, in order to find information that helps her build a solution for their business. Janet’s success is one of ideas and relationships, and does not rely on audience size. – Jim Richmond, General Sales Manager, Entercom San Francisco.
Kevin Burkhardt Is Broadcasting’s Most Unlikely Success Story
“To go from a car lot to the main NFL on FOX booth in less than 20 years is about as likely as one quarterback leading his team to seven Super Bowl wins.”
There is always something appealing about the 50-75% off rack in a clothing store. It is the hope against hope I can find a shirt in my size that doesn’t look like a 1980’s Bill Cosby sweater and a velour tracksuit had a baby. That is not where FOX went shopping for Tom Brady.
Nope, FOX paid top dollar for their newest NFL analyst. Though the actual number first reported by Andrew Marchand of the New York Post (ten years, $375 million) hasn’t been confirmed by FOX, it is safe to say Brady will be the highest paid sports analyst in television history. “Will be” because he has that pesky little roadblock of finishing the greatest NFL career we’ve ever seen first.
I’m glad Brady could finally catch a break, looks like things are turning around for the poor guy.
The reason Brady is even being hired is that FOX is in the relatively unique position of having an entire booth opening for their top NFL game telecast with the departure of Joe Buck and Troy Aikman to ABC/ESPN. The closest thing we’ve seen to this situation was the 2006 move from ABC to NBC of Al Michaels and John Madden. Of course, ABC was moving Monday Night Football to ESPN at that time and the break felt a little more natural.
As another side note, that was the Al Michaels/Oswald the Lucky Rabbit trade. Yes, one of the greatest play-by-play voices in television history was traded from ABC to NBC for some Ryder Cup rights, an Olympic highlights agreement and the rights to a cartoon rabbit. Oswald, of course, was the forerunner to Mickey Mouse. That must be the cartoon equivalent of what it was like being the opener for The Rolling Stones. The house lights are up, the single guys are hitting on the single ladies and everyone is coming back from the concession stands ready for Oswald to shut up so Mickey can take the stage.
What this has created for FOX is the search for the play-by-play partner for Brady, the role 46-year-old Kevin Burkhardt has earned. You’ll notice I said “earned” instead of “was given”. No, Burkhardt has absolutely worked his way to the top of the FOX ladder, starting by covering local high school football in New Jersey. In fact, my favorite part of this story is Burkhardt, not Brady.
Burkhardt is as good an example of perseverance paying off as you will find in sports broadcasting. As Richard Deitsch once profiled for Sports Illustrated, just 15 years ago, seemingly having given up on hitting it big, Burkhardt was selling cars for Pine Belt Chevrolet in New Jersey. His silky smooth voice has been one of the reasons Burkhardt has climbed the FOX ladder but can you imagine him describing what is under the hood of a 2005 Chevy Suburban? Or him saying, “We have cars for every price range starting as low as $10,000. From ten to 15 to 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50…”
To go from a car lot to the main NFL on FOX booth in less than 20 years is about as likely as one quarterback leading his team to seven Super Bowl wins. Maybe that is why this pair will work. Brady, himself, was fairly close to using that business degree from Michigan. If not for a fortuitous draft pick and a Drew Bledsoe injury, the car salesman-sixth round pick broadcast team may have never happened.
Burkhardt’s climb is a lesson for young people looking to break into the sports broadcasting field. I’d be writing this from my summer home in Santorini, Greece if I had a dollar for every time someone asked me how to get on the air in sports radio or TV. My answer is the same every time: go to your local radio or TV station that carries high school sports and tell them you’ll volunteer to be part of the production. Trust me on this, local stations make good revenue on high school sports and are looking to produce it as cheaply as possible.
I did that when I was in college at Jacksonville State University and worked my first football season, 14 weeks, for a free game of bowling and a free meal for two at a local bar-b-que joint. I can’t calculate now how much that bowling and bar-b-que has been worth to me since. I was able to get on the air, learn the craft and make all my early mistakes in a very forgiving environment.
The local high school broadcast teaches you how to adapt to unforeseen circumstances. You will, at some point, call a game from a booth shared with a member of the home team’s quarterback club, a man who lives for the free pizza and cookies in the Friday night press box. He’s certain the game officials are either blind or on the opposing team’s payroll and doesn’t care if your crowd mic hears him yelling it.
That’s if you are fortunate enough to have a spot in the actual press box. When I was in college, doing high school play-by-play on WHMA-FM in Anniston, Alabama, we once were told there was no room in the home team’s press box for a state playoffs semifinal game. We convinced the station’s sales team to go to the local equipment rental store and negotiate for us to use a scissor lift at the stadium. They delivered it for us and it became our perilous mobile broadcast booth for one Friday night.
The lessons learned in those years shaped my career. Those same types of lessons were also the building blocks for the man who is now slated to call the biggest games on FOX, including the Super Bowl, for the foreseeable future.
It is crazy to think a man drafted 199th is now paired in one of the biggest jobs in sports TV with a man who once tried to convince people to add on things like the Platinum Level Pine Belt Chevy Service Agreement. Those are the stories we love in sports. Now, those two will tell us those types of stories for years to come.
Patrick Beverley Announced Himself As the Next Sports Broadcasting Star
ESPN shouldn’t have let Beverley leave its studios without signing him to a contract that put him in an analyst role as soon as his playing career is over.
Last week, Fox Sports announced the signing of what the network hopes is the next sports broadcasting star in Tom Brady. More dazzling headlines came from Brady’s mega-deal with Fox, though the network disputes the 10-year, $375 million figure reported by the New York Post‘s Andrew Marchand.
This week, however, viewers may have seen the emergence of another future sports broadcasting star. And unlike Fox, ESPN didn’t tell us NBA player Patrick Beverley would be an impactful commentator based on name recognition and contract size. The network showed us Beverley’s talents and capabilities with sharp, biting opinions on its Monday daytime studio shows.
Beverley, who played this season for the Minnesota Timberwolves, has long been known as one of the NBA’s most provocative and irritating defenders. Coaches regularly task him with checking the opposing team’s best player.
He obstructs opponents physically with quick footwork and hands that result in steals, blocks, and rebounds of missed shots. But he also throws players off their game verbally and mentally, getting in their heads and forcing them to think about matters other than the game at hand.
That talent for highlighting weaknesses and insecurities in opponents serves him well as an analyst, which Beverley demonstrated by skewering Phoenix Suns guard Chris Paul during appearances on Get Up and First Take. On the Monday morning after the Suns’ shocking 123-90 Game 7 loss to the Dallas Mavericks in the NBA Playoffs, the NBA guard went beyond stating that Paul had played badly.
Appearing with JJ Redick, Beverley could’ve said something obvious and safe like the Suns needed their leader to score more than 10 points with their season on the line. Paul needed to elevate the rest of the team and make them better. But given a national platform, Beverley pushed harder than that.
“They benched the wrong person,” Beverley said, referring to center Deandre Ayton playing only 17 minutes (and less than four minutes during the second half) in what Suns coach Monty Williams called an “internal” matter.
“They should’ve benched Chris… Once you see they started attacking Chris early and that might become a problem later on, you need to see how my team works without Chris in the game.”
On First Take, Beverley continued his criticism of Paul, especially his defense.
“There ain’t nobody worried about Chris Paul when you play the Phoenix Suns, nobody in the NBA,” Beverley said to Stephen A. Smith. “He’s finessed the game to a point where he gets all the petty calls, all the swipe-throughs at the end.
“We wanna be really honest? He should’ve fouled out. The last game, too. You see the replay against [Jalen] Brunson, hit him on the shoulder, hit him on the mouth, ref don’t call anything. If that’s me, ‘Oh, review it! Flagrant 1!’ If that’s him, they don’t call it.”
Beverley went on to say Paul can’t guard anyone and called him “a cone” that stays still while opponents run around him. That is scathing commentary coming from a current NBA player, criticism not typically heard on a studio show.
Yet if Beverley sounded bitter and resentful toward Paul, it’s because he is. The 10-year veteran holds an intense grudge against the Suns guard going back to when they faced each other in high school and college, which he explained to Redick earlier this year on his podcast, Old Man and the Three (via Awful Announcing).
“Chris, he does slick s**t,” Beverley told Redick. “People don’t know, that’s a little dirty motherf***er, man. Chris know that too, man. I know you don’t want to say it, but I’ll say it for you, though. I know he was your teammate.”
Paul wasn’t the only Suns player targeted by the guest analyst, however. Besides saying the entire Phoenix team was “scared,” especially of Mavericks star guard Luka Dončić, Beverley had plenty of criticism for Ayton, saying he was “OK” after Redick called him “fantastic” on First Take.
“I’m all about greatness,” Beverley said (via the Arizona Republic‘s Duane Rankin). “What would Wilt Chamberlain do? What would Shaquille O’Neal do? Get it off the rim. Y’all don’t have him in the pick-and-roll, I’m going to get it off the rim. I’m going to go get it. I’m going to go get it.”
Ayton only scored five points in Phoenix’s Game 7 loss. By “get it off the rim,” Beverley meant that there were plenty of opportunities for offensive rebounds and putbacks with all of the shots that Paul and Devin Booker missed. (The two shot a combined 7-for-22.)
ESPN shouldn’t have let Beverley leave its South Street Seaport studios in New York City without signing him to a contract that put him in an analyst role as soon as his playing career is over, as Fox did with Tom Brady. Actually, the network should make sure Beverley appears across its daytime schedule while he’s still an active player, as Turner Sports does with Draymond Green. And why not on NBA Countdown as well?
Fox drew the headlines last week for signing Tom Brady to its top NFL broadcast team without having any idea if he will be good at calling football games. He received a reportedly massive contract to prevent him from going anywhere else after he retires, and Fox is banking that casual fans will tune in out of familiarity and curiosity.
Patrick Beverley doesn’t have that kind of mainstream recognition. The NBA isn’t as nationally popular as the NFL. And studio analysts aren’t typically as well-known as game commentators. But maybe that’s more true of football. Who is the most famous basketball analyst? It’s Charles Barkley, by far.
Barkley is known for his candor and pointed opinions, which stand out in a studio setting far more than they would during a game broadcast as the action keeps moving. His jokes and jabs can be easily captured in video clips that play well on social media and have a shelf life on YouTube. ESPN has never had that kind of personality for its NBA coverage. No matter how hard it’s tried, the network has never produced anything close to Turner’s Inside the NBA.
But ESPN, whether realizing it or not, may have found its guy in Beverley. Put him on NBA Countdown and it instantly becomes a better program. Let PatBev argue with Stephen A., as he did on Monday’s First Take, and the pregame show is something that generates buzz and conversation.
Maybe Beverley, Redick, and Stephen A. would make for a good post-game show, something ESPN has never done while Inside the NBA shines in breaking down what just happened. Yes, there’s SportsCenter and Beverley could appear with Scott Van Pelt afterward. But a strong NBA postgame show could become a key part of the overall package. What if SVP played moderator as Ernie Johnson does with Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Shaquille O’Neal?
Doesn’t that already sound better than what ESPN is doing now? Don’t let PatBev get away! He could be the network’s next big, must-watch star. Especially if he has grudges against more NBA players besides Chris Paul.
Mike Raffensperger Examines The Business of Sports Betting
“McAfee asked some outstanding questions, as he often does, while Raffensperger pulled back the curtain on a lot of things listeners and customers of the book were wanting to know.”
Pat McAfee has built quite a following since the end of his playing days. Last December, the former Indianapolis Colts punter signed a four-year, $120 million deal with FanDuel to make it the exclusive sportsbook of The Pat McAfee Show, where he seamlessly blends gambling talk with football talk every weekday.
Last Thursday, McAfee welcomed Mike Raffensperger to the show for a very insightful and informative segment. The Chief Marketing Officer for FanDuel touched on numerous topics during the interview, ranging from how likely it is that each state will eventually have online gambling, to which show member was having the worst gambling run per their account history.
While some questioned the decision to give McAfee such a high amount of money in the deal, it appears to have paid off handsomely for FanDuel. In a report put out last week by their parent company, Flutter Entertainment, the book signed up 1.3 million active new customers in the first quarter of 2022. In addition, their 1.5 million active customers on Super Bowl Sunday was the highest single-day total ever, and the 19 million bets they processed during the NCAA Tournament signaled the most popular betting period in the book’s history.
Raffensperger discussed some of the challenges that have been overcome with getting the FanDuel online service up and running in states as they slowly begin to legalize it. He stated that 15 states currently offer online services, but that getting all 50 will never happen.
He cited Utah as an example, as their state constitution clearly outlaws gambling, but stated that many states have legalized it because it is “pretty common sense legalization.” He does believe we will see many more states, including California, legalize sports wagering in the coming years, however. “You will see a continued, steady pace for the next few years, and then you will get close to a critical mass, but you will never get to 50.”
McAfee asked how much of a role COVID-19 played in the legalization of sports gambling, and Raffensperger said many states were forced to explore new ways to recoup tax revenues lost during shutdowns. “From a state, municipal budgets, they needed tax revenue,” he said, while also discussing how it went from being something done in the shadows to commonplace. “It is taking a black market that is unregulated and unsafe, into a safe and regulated environment, and creates tax revenue for the state. It’s very common sense.”
One of the more informative discussions came when McAfee asked what Raffensperger would say to listeners that complained they were unable to take advantage of odds boosts or promos that FanDuel offered through his show, yet were not available to listeners in every state. This is a common issue for radio stations throughout the country that have gambling ads in multi-state markets.
“It tends to be a little more restrictive,” Raffensperger said regarding how states tend to regulate what can be offered in the months following legalization. “Then over time, as states get comfortable, we build a good relationship with our regulating partners.” He added, “it does tend to open up a bit more over time” as they build that rapport within a state, but fully understands the frustration for customers and listeners. “At the end of the day, we gotta own what the customer experience is, and it’s FanDuel’s job to work through those regulatory challenges to make it as easy on customers as possible.”
When McAfee asked him about whether more brick-and-mortar book sites might be coming in the future at professional stadiums, Raffensperger was quick to point out it was also impacted by state regulations. Stating that 90% of all their bets were made online, he also questioned to what end a physical site would be a prudent investment.
“Beyond a physical teller and placing a bet, what is a super premium or luxury experience that would make being at a sportsbook different than what you have in your mind of a Vegas sportsbook,” he asked theoretically, “but being at a retail stadium?”
He also said that physical sites, like online apps, are tied to regulation on a state-by-state basis. “You’re either allowed to take a physical bet in a sports facility or not. Most of the time, and in most of the laws, you have to have already been a gambling establishment, either a race track or a casino, to have a physical book.”
They also touched on the McAfee same game parlay for Super Bowl LVI, which Raffensperger confirmed was tailed by more than 200,000 of his listeners. Paying out nearly eight-to-one, the wager was for Cooper Kupp to score a touchdown and to have more than 60 yards receiving, in addition to Odell Beckham Jr scoring a touchdown, and Joe Burrow rushing for 12 or more yards. Raffensperger said the parlay, which needed just nine rushing yards from Burrow to hit, may have been “the biggest parlay liability in the history of gambling,” and would have cost the book nearly $50 million had it come through.
One final interesting fact was the rise of women in the sports gambling space. A report over the weekend from Global Wireless Solutions stated that the growth rate of women signing up with sportsbooks is 63% higher than the rate of men during the same time frame. They also reported that in 2021 FanDuel added almost 1.7 million new female customers, with DraftKings adding close to 900,000 in the same span. As sportsbooks look to bring in higher market share and look to find new ways to advertise their services, women are likely the next major demographic the books fight over.
All in all, it was a terrific interview from all sides. Entertaining and enlightening, McAfee asked some outstanding questions, as he often does, while Raffensperger pulled back the curtain on a lot of things listeners and customers of the book were wanting to know. The partnership appears to be greatly beneficial for all parties involved, and hopefully the positive reception to the McAfee interview will lead to more transparency and open dialogue from sports book executives to their consumers.