Q&A with John Mamola
Never confuse a person that has fun with someone who doesn’t work hard. The ’85 Bears made the infamous “Super Bowl Shuffle,” but no one ever accused Walter Payton and Mike Singletary of being slackers. Head coach Mike Ditka could be seen roller skating through the hallways of Halas Hall. However, it wasn’t exactly hard for Iron Mike to flip a switch and become incredibly intense.
It’s the same concept with John Mamola. Just like the childhood team he grew up rooting for, John knows when to have fun and when to get serious. It’s easy to tell that he has a great blend. “The Rock” can easily go from constructing a funny bit, to giving a professional critique and conducting a conference call. Hosts aren’t the only ones who succeed by being versatile. PD’s flourish too.
I don’t know if Jenna Jameson or the Kielbasa Queen had a bigger impact on John’s pursuit of a sports radio career, but the movie Private Parts played a big role in his journey. As the program director at WDAE in Tampa, it’s ironic that he has the same gig as Paul Giamatti’s character Pig Vomit — John’s creativity and charisma more closely resembles Howard Stern’s. Read below and find out yourself.
Brian Noe: How did you get the nickname John “The Rock” Mamola?
John Mamola: (laughs) Well, in high school I fell for a girl and it was my best friend’s girlfriend. We got into a little bit of a fistfight. I kept getting up and a guy said, “Man, he keeps getting up like a rock.” That’s just how it stuck. I have a Midwest work ethic. I work all morning, all afternoon, all night, and continue to grind on the weekends. It just kind of stuck and it just morphed itself into a personality in Chicago where that’s what I’m known as up there. Down here I’m known as John, but it’s inked on my arms and it’ll live with me forever.
Noe: So you have “The Rock” on your arms?
John: I do. I have my nickname on my right forearm and my last name on my left forearm.
Noe: That’s awesome, man. And is that your wife right now?
John: Ahh, no. No. The girl lasted about four months.
Noe: Oh, gosh. (laughs) But the nickname has stuck forever, huh?
John: The nickname has stuck for, God, how many years has it been? It’s 19 years. The nickname has stuck for 19 years.
Noe: So your early days in Chicago — is that where you initially broke into the sports talk business?
John: Yeah, I went to the Illinois Center for Broadcasting originally. I lived in Fort Worth, Texas for about 12 years. Went to high school down there and I was taking some junior college courses for Pre-Pharm. I wanted to be a pharmacist. I worked in pharmacy for about 3-4 years and I got that bug. I figured, “Okay, well, becoming a pharmacist out of school you’re making probably around $120-$130K a year. That seems like a pretty good living. I think I can do that.”
I started taking some junior college courses and working on the basics. Long story short we had a death in the family back in Chicago. My mom was needed to run the family business so we decided to ship everything back up to Chicago. Then, at that moment when you find out that your credits don’t transfer, especially after you move — it’s like, “Okay, well I have 62 credit hours and none of them transfer up here and I’m not in a place where I’m ready to live on my own yet, so I have to find something else.
The backstory is literally I watched Private Parts late at night. Got pretty hammered, looked up broadcasting schools on the internet just for the fun of it. I emailed a guy and literally got a response at like four in the morning that very night. He said come on in for a tour in the morning and I’ll show you around. You’ve had probably that same moment that we’ve all had — you walk into that radio studio for that first time and there’s something that seems very right about that. You don’t necessarily know what it is, but when you walk in that room and you see that board and you see the mic and all the equipment that goes with it, and you sit down in that chair, it’s like, “There’s something about this that feels right. So I’m going to go down that road in investigating a little bit.”
The basis of the curriculum up there was you have to get an internship about two and a half months into the 10-month course. I applied at about six different radio stations in Chicago. The Score was the only one I got an interview at. Matt Fishman, who writes for the [BSM] website as well, was the sports director at the time. I interviewed with him and got an internship and the rest is history.
I went from intern to part-time producer. I worked as a weekend producer, and then moved up to full-time producer in morning drive — that was my first full-time job in the market. It turned into a bunch of different opportunities at many of the CBS now Entercom brands in Chicago working with the Bears Radio Network. Then, it turned into hosting, co-hosting, etc. I spent about eight and a half years in the Chicago market.
Noe: I know that you worked with Mike North going back to your WSCR days. What was your favorite bit that North did while you were there working with him?
John: (laughs) We did a lot of bits because the crux of the show was we were going to be Imus for Chicago and it was something that at the time The Score had never done before — we were kind of straying away from an all-sports program. Especially in morning drive that can be a little risky, but that’s what Mike wanted to do. The execs at CBS at the time allowed him to do that. We tried to be a little edgy.
We had a three-man room between him, Fred Huebner, and Anne Maxfield. We brought in Steve Buckman — he used to work at WGN and we brought in Jen Patterson who was a waitress at Gibsons Steakhouse that went to I think Columbia. She wanted to get into media in some sort of fashion. I was just kind of there because I produced the Murph & Fred Show before that. I was the lone guy seeing over, outside of Fred Huebner.
We came up with some really risqué stuff. We had the Fred Huebner hip-hop moment of the day, which was basically — we imaged it (me and Russ Mitera) — because Fred hates hip hop and rap. I got him the dirtiest rap lyrics you can find and we read them like prose — like if you’re in a Def Jam Comedy kind of thing. We had the snaps in the background and the golf claps and the cheesy bass going on in the background. That was fuckin’ hilarious and actually got a lot of play for us.
We had the Bookie Priest, which I think Mike still does that on YouTube. That was a trip in itself coming up with that each and every morning at five in the morning. Here comes in Mike North and he’s going to sing basically his picks for the day.
We did a lot of risky kind of stuff, but it was fun. The one thing I’ll say about my time in Chicago — we had the freedom to be creative with whatever we wanted to do and have the backing of management in about 95 percent of the cases. That allowed the show to grow within itself and also extended into Mully & Hanley who have been dominating Chicago now for a while. Also for me personally, the fact that they trusted my vision within certain limits and gave me that flexibility to do what I wanted to do as long as it fit the show model then, “Yeah, let’s do it.” That’s the one thing that I took a lot of umbrage in is that they allowed me that window. It’s led me to some really, really great and memorable things. Now in my current role I’m trying to pay it forward. I’m trying to give my guys that same kind of door as long as obviously within the window of making sense.
If I had to list a couple, definitely the hip hop moments were my favorite because it’s funny watching Fred Huebner read hip hop lyrics that are just dirty as all sin. At the same time, the Bookie Priest was fun too. We had a lot of fun times on that show.
Noe: If you think about those days that you’re describing and the current climate of sports talk radio — do you think that it’s gotten a little less fun and more serious — maybe too serious?
John: I think it depends on the talent. The one thing I always respected about working for Mitch Rosen is he gave you tons of feedback. In my current role I try to do that for each and every one of my shows as much as I can, but there are just so many more duties now that are being put on the program director position in radio that it’s really, really hard to keep a keen ear on things. I always found it — when Mitch had great responses or even critiques to the stuff we were doing, that’s what made it more fun because we knew that the boss was paying attention. So, what more can we do to where he comes in the office and says, “Yeah, man, that’s awesome.” It was almost like motivation. Ya know?
Now look, you also need talent and producers and production staffs to work together and work on what is the image that we want to cast on what our show is. Too often I think people get stuck in this mentality as far as talent is concerned, where they got to be the Stephen A. Smith. Or they got to be the guy on Around the Horn. Or they got to be the Francesa type that basically everything is super serious and super sports geared.
Look at a station like KFAN up in Minneapolis. Their morning show is a good 50-50 split on sports and just other general stuff, but there are also characters, there are parodies, there are game shows. I mean that’s what works. What they’re doing with KFAN in Minneapolis is amazing, but it fits that market. I don’t know if you can do that in New York. I don’t know if you can do that honestly in Chicago. You could probably do something like that down here. Some of the more successful shows here are the ones that laugh a lot. It’s trying to find those avenues to have a little fun and kind of break away from sports a little bit, but it has to fit your market and it has to fit what the listeners are demanding of you. That’s where a very involved program director will help facilitate that and guide you on the right path.
Noe: How much of that have you done in Tampa in terms of coming up with bits and trying to encourage them from your hosts?
John: We have daily meetings with the morning show. I want them to be creative and try new things. I’ll give them feedback on things as soon as I hear it, believe me, you’re going to get an email, or text message, or in-person feedback thing to let them know. If it’s not right away, it’ll definitely be sent that night. I’m very involved when it comes to coming up with ideas and bits.
I have some very, very creative production staff members that are producers and co-hosts now. We have a lot of great ideas flowing all at the same time. Some are great, some are awful, but the fact that we’re trying to come up with new and fresh ideas to create unique opportunities for programming and on-air, that’s what you should be doing on a day-to-day basis because that’s what your audience is demanding.
Noe: What was it like when you initially moved from Chicago to Tampa and got away from your comfort zone?
John: Tampa’s very different. The people are extremely kind. When it comes to the area, it’s like living in Suburbia all over the place. I tried public transportation for a day and it took three and a half hours to get from where I lived to work when it used to take 45 on the brown line. It’s a culture shock because you’re going from a really busy, robust city of different cultures and diehard sports fans that have been there for 50, 100 years, and you’re coming to a market where the Rays are celebrating their 20th anniversary this year. The Lightning just celebrated I believe their 25th anniversary.
It’s a football state. It’s a college state. In Chicago, if DePaul was in the tournament maybe you talked about DePaul. Northwestern never really brought anything to the table at the time when I was there so we never embraced college outside of finding the local Michigan bar and going there on Saturday. Here though it’s religion. Gators, Noles, Miami, USF, UCF now with their recent success. It’s SEC country down here so I’m not used to that. It’s a little weird.
The weather — there’s no change in seasons, so it kind of bothers me that I have to wear shorts in December. I know a lot of people would say, “Oh, that’s paradise,” well yeah but I kind of like to dig in the snow in the slush a little bit once in a while. Not every day but it’d be nice to have a little snow on the ground during the holidays and it makes it easier for a cup of coffee and that kind of thing.
It’s a smaller market with a lot of great properties. It has very different fan bases because this is where a lot of people retire. There’s a lot of New York, Boston, Philly and the Midwest. You don’t have that hundreds of years of passion and attachment to the franchises that I had back home.
Look, I’m still a White Sox fan. I’m still a Blackhawks fan. Bulls, Bears, love ‘em. I have firsthand knowledge of moving here and it’s difficult to try to grasp onto the teams because all of your life you grew up knowing one thing. When that becomes the town you obviously want to go see that one thing because that’s what you grew up with. I can understand how it’s tough for some people to unplug.
But I’ll say this — all three of the pro franchises here have done a great job of welcoming in newcomers, and marketing themselves in a way that says, “Hey, give us a chance when it’s not your team playing here.” The Lightning sell out every single night. The Rays have a lot of attendance struggles but their TV and radio ratings are pretty good. Buccaneers, that’s the staple here. When it’s football season it’s all about the Bucs.
It’s a bit of culture shock, but you adjust and do the best job you can with the new staff you have, the new duties you have, and you just kind of go from there.
Noe: How exactly did you get to Tampa in the first place?
John: It got to a point in Chicago where I was working about six jobs all at the same time between The Score and a couple other Entercom properties. I was also doing stuff for the Chicago Tribune — they had this blog website called ChicagoNow.com, and I had just gotten married and became a new father. There was a lot on the plate. It reached a point where I walked into Mitch’s office one day and said, “Hey, man, I just kind of need to know where’s my future at here?”
The one thing I give Mitch Rosen a lot of credit for — and there will be many, many other people if you ever ask about Mitch Rosen that have worked or work for him, they will say the exact same thing that I’m about to say — that guy will tell you point blank exactly what he thinks and he will help you get somewhere else if you want to go somewhere else. And that’s exactly what he did. We sat down in the office and he told me, “Look, you’re doing a great job, but unfortunately right now there’s just no possible way to crack the daily lineup.” So I asked him, “Well in that case if I were to find something, could you assist in that process?” He didn’t hesitate. He said, “Absolutely. You’ve worked very hard for me. I’ll do my very best to help you build your future here in this business.”
I found a job posting at that time, I think on STAA. It was the APD job at DAE. I applied. Steve Versnick was the program director at the time for DAE as well as WFLA and WHNZ. I had a great interview process. It took about four and a half months to finally land the gig, and we moved here in April of 2011. That’s how I got to Tampa.
I always wanted to have a programming background because I felt that I understood radio and how to create good content. Being a host, sometimes you don’t listen to and critique yourself, but as a programmer you’re listening to other elements and everything that surrounds it and you’re expected to be able to critique it, mold it and turn it into something successful. That’s what I really enjoy.
Noe: What do you think might differentiate between your ear as a programmer and a host’s ear when it comes to their own show?
John: They’re always right. (laughs) Whatever they say, they’re always right. Different talent work differently. Not every piece of advice or critique that you give as a PD is going to be heard. For me it’s always been to focus on what they’re doing well and make it great. Then focus on something that they’re maybe like 50 percent good at, and make it 75. It doesn’t have to be 100 percent. It doesn’t have to be great. It just needs to be better than the last time you listened. That’s the way I’ve always gone about it.
It takes a great talent that’s receptive to criticism or critiques to be worthy of getting those critiques. If you’re going to be a talent and you think that everything you do is gold even though you’ve never listened back to your show, that’s where you’re going to run into problems. More people consume our product differently now. If it’s a tune out immediately, more often than not those people are going to go somewhere else. There are so many different options for an audience to get the content they’re looking for.
Noe: What aspect of being a program director is the most fun and the most rewarding?
John: The most fun aspect of my job is when I can stop at a gas station or go to a ball game or a sports bar, and you’re sitting there and you just overhear people talking about stuff on the station. That’s the most rewarding part because it means I’m doing my job. I never go out and introduce myself as, “Hey, I’m John Mamola from 620 WDAE” or iHeartMedia or anything like that. I’m a normal person outside of the office just like anyone else, but if I’m by Ferg’s down by the Trop and they’re talking about what Ronnie and TKras said that morning — it happens a lot more often than you think — that’s fulfilling because it means the station and our hosts are stirring the conversation that gets people talking.
I love going to Rays Fan Fest and seeing all the listeners come out and shake hands with all the talent. I love how our talent has been — especially in the past couple of years — more visible. We do suite nights with Ronnie and TKras where they go out to a Rays game and take a bunch of listeners out. We stay in a suite and we watch a ball game together. We do the same thing at Amalie Arena when there’s a Lightning game. We’re just much more focused on reaching out and making those bonds and getting stronger with face-to-face interaction with the listening base.
Jay Recher, who’s one of our producers, is now a fill in co-host on 12 to 3. He does a lot of stuff on high school baseball getting local communities involved with him. Putting local baseball content on our website and getting coaches on. At the University of Tampa, the Saladino Tournament is really big out here. Doing coverage of that just tying yourself to the community a little bit. That’s rewarding. The charity golf tournaments we do and all those kind of things. They’re all rewarding.
It’s a grind of a job as you well know talking to other PD’s around the country, but there are moments where you can just sit back and smile and say, “Yeah, we’re doing the right thing and we’re doing a really, really good job.” That’s when I’m smiling probably the most.
Noe: You mentioned the grind of the gig — what is your biggest challenge?
John: I don’t have enough time in the day. I wish I had more time to sit down and listen and have immediate critiques. Right now I’ll wake up at 5:30 in the morning. Take the kids to school. Listen for an hour on the way in. Then it’s the usual day-to-day stuff for a PD — meet with the sales staff, meet with the promotion staff. There are other daily meetings and conference calls you have to do to. A lot of web elements, social stuff. Then you’re done at four and you try to catch some of the afternoon show, but then the phone rings and you’re on a family call, and pick up the kids from daycare.
I just wish I had a little more time in the day. It’s all in how you delegate too. I’m a very hands-on person. I like having my feet in the mud and digging in with my teams. We all do too much already so I’d hate to put some of my stuff that I can take of on their plate. I don’t mind delegating, but I also know they don’t have as much time for it.
We work as a very well-oiled machine in this building between the production staff and the talent where everybody knows their role and what they have to do. Everybody picks up for each other when one’s out. It’s just the time element. I wish we had more time to sit down and intensively listen to what we’re doing as opposed to catching it on a podcast or something like that.
Noe: 5-10 years from now, what type of scenario do you think would make you the most happy when it comes to work? What does that situation look like?
John: I think radio in general is going to look dramatically different in the next 5-10 years. I guess it depends on how we evolve and manage the change that’s going to judge how successful we are with it. I love working for iHeart because I think iHeart is by far and away the most forward-thinking company in radio. Between the app and all of the tremendous things that you can do with it. I think smart speakers are going to be a huge, huge thing for radio and lead to more on-demand listening tools for people to consume content.
For me personally, I would love to be at DAE or at a station — because you never know in this business — but I would love to be at a station that has adapted to the change where they’re the most successful at it in the country. I’m not just talking locally because I think it’s going to get to a point where people can be in their car — and a perfect example is Tampa — I think it’s going to be a real challenge for a lot of people that move to listen to local content because the accessibility of the content from their home or on demand is going to be so much easier when you get 5-10 years down the road. It’s going to be really interesting to see how success is judged when it comes to radio.
That’s what I’m excited about. I think we’re at a turning point where audio has never been bigger between terrestrial radio, satellite radio, podcasts, the on-demand audio on all the iHeart channels is just an example. I think we’re at an interesting point in the history of this business where we’re going to see some real quick and rapid change. I’m interested to see how it plays out.
Brian Noe is a columnist for BSM and an on-air host heard nationwide on FOX Sports Radio’s Countdown To Kickoff. Previous roles include stops in Portland, OR, Albany, NY and Fresno, CA. You can follow him on Twitter @TheNoeShow or email him at email@example.com.
Pat McAfee Has Thrown Our Business Into a Tailspin
Yet even with all the accomplishments he’s been able to achieve, McAfee is still anxious and unsatisfied with the state of his show and his career.
When you have one of the hottest talk shows in America, you’re always up to something. That’s the case for the most popular sports talk show host in America – Pat McAfee.
The former Pro Bowl punter was on top of the world on Wednesday. With over 496,000 concurrent viewers watching at one point, McAfee was able to garner an exclusive interview with frequent guest Aaron Rodgers who announced his intention to play for the Jets.
Yet even with all the accomplishments he’s been able to achieve — a new studio, consistent high viewership, a syndication deal with SportsGrid TV, a four-year, $120 million deal with FanDuel — McAfee is still anxious and unsatisfied with the state of his show and his career.
At the end of the day, he is human and he’s admitted that balancing his show, his ESPN gig with “College Gameday,” and his WWE obligations has taken a toll on him.
McAfee and his wife are expecting their first child soon and he recently told The New York Post he might step away from his deal with FanDuel. Operating his own company has come with the responsibility of making sure his studio is up and running, finding people to operate the technology that puts his show on the air, negotiating with huge behemoths like the NFL for game footage rights, booking guests, booking hotels, implementing marketing plans and other tasks that most on-air personalities rarely have to worry about.
McAfee says he’s looking for a network that would be able to take control of those duties while getting more rest and space to spend time with family while focusing strictly on hosting duties. FanDuel has its own network and has the money to fund such endeavors but is just getting started in the content game. McAfee needs a well-known entity to work with who can take his show to the next level while also honoring his wishes of keeping the show free on YouTube.
The question of how he’s going to be able to do it is something everyone in sports media will be watching. As The Post pointed out in their story, McAfee hasn’t frequently stayed with networks he’s been associated with in the past for too long. He’s worked with Westwood One, DAZN, and Barstool but hasn’t stayed for more than a year or two.
There’s an argument to be made that the latter two companies weren’t as experienced as a network when McAfee signed on with them compared to where they are today which could’ve pushed the host to leave. But at the end of the day, networks want to put money into long-term investments and it’s easy to see a network passing on working with McAfee for fear that he’ll leave them astray when he’s bored.
It’ll also be difficult for McAfee to find a network that doesn’t put him behind a paywall. Amazon and Google are rumored to be potential new homes. But both are trying to increase subscribers for their respective streaming services.
It will be difficult to sell Amazon on investing money to build a channel on YouTube – a rival platform. For Google, they may have the tech infrastructure to create television-like programming but they aren’t an experienced producer, they’ve never produced its own live, daily talk show, and investing in McAfee’s show doesn’t necessarily help increase the number of subscribers watching YouTube TV.
Networks like ESPN, CBS, NBC, and Fox might make sense to partner with. But McAfee faces the possibility of being censored due to corporate interests. Each of these networks also operates its networks or streaming channels that air talk programming of their own. Investing in McAfee could cannibalize the programming they already own.
And if McAfee works with a traditional network that isn’t ESPN, it could jeopardize his ability to host game casts for Omaha or analyze games on Gameday. It’s not impossible but would definitely be awkward on days that McAfee does his show remotely from locations of ESPN games with ESPN banners and signage that is visible in the background.
If SportsGrid has the money to invest in McAfee, they might be his best bet. They have all the attributes McAfee needs and they already have a relationship with him. It is probably unlikely that he’ll be censored and he would even be able to maintain a relationship with FanDuel – a company SportsGrid also works alongside.
Roku is another option — they already work with Rich Eisen — but they would move his show away from YouTube, something McAfee should resist since the majority of smart TV users use YT more than any other app.
If the NFL gave McAfee editorial independence, they would make the perfect partner but the likelihood of that happening is slim to none. NFL Media has independence but it was clear during the night of the Damar Hamlin incident that they will do whatever is necessary to stay away from serious topics that make the league look bad until it’s totally unavoidable.
It’s hard to think of a partner that matches up perfectly with McAfee’s aspirations. But once again, at the moment, he’s on top of the world so anything is possible. The talk show host’s next move will be even more interesting to watch than the other fascinating moves he’s already made that have put the sports media industry in a swivel.
Jessie Karangu is a columnist for BSM and graduate of the University of Maryland with a bachelor’s degree in journalism. He was born and raised in Baltimore, Maryland but comes from Kenyan roots. Jessie has had a passion for sports media and the world of television since he was a child. His career has included stints with USA Today, Tegna, Sinclair Broadcast Group and Sightline Media. He can be found on Twitter @JMKTVShow.
5 Tips For Networking At the BSM Summit
“Have a plan and don’t leave home without it.”
Bring your game plan if you attend the BSM Summit in LA next Tuesday and Wednesday. No matter your purpose for attending: to learn, get a job, speak, or sell an idea, you must be able to read the room. To do that, it helps to know who will be there and how you can cure their pain.
Have a plan and don’t leave home without it. If you have time, buy How to Work a Room by Susan Roane. If you don’t, just follow these five tips:
- INTRODUCE YOURSELF: Before you arrive at The Summit, figure out what you want, who you want to meet, and what you will say. Once you get there, scout out the room and see if anyone of those people are available. Talk to speakers after they have spoken- don’t worry if you miss what the next speaker says. You are there to meet new people! Most speakers do not stick around for the entire schedule, and you don’t know if they will attend any after-parties, so don’t risk it. Refine your elevator pitch and break the ice with something you have in common. Make sure you introduce yourself to Stephanie, Demetri and Jason from BSM. They know everybody and will help you if they can.
- GET A NAME TAG: Don’t assume that name tags will be provided. Bring your own if you and make your name clear to read. If you are looking to move to LA or want to sell a system to book better guests, put it briefly under your name. Study this to get better at remembering names.
- LOSE THE NOTEBOOK: When you meet folks, ensure your hands are free. Have a business card handy and ask for one of theirs. Remember to look people in the eye and notice what they are doing. If they are scanning the room, pause until they realize they are blowing you off. Do whatever it takes to sound upbeat and open. Don’t let their clothes, hair, or piercings distract from your message. You don’t need to wear a suit and tie but do bring your best business casual wear. A blazer isn’t a bad idea either.
- SHUT UP FIRST! The art of knowing when to end the convo is something you will have to practice. You can tell when the other person’s eye starts darting or they are not using body language that tells you the convo will continue. You end it by telling them you appreciate meeting them and want to connect via email. Ask for a business card. Email is more challenging to ignore than a LinkedIn request, and you can be more detailed in what you want via email.
- WORK THE SCHEDULE: Know who speaks when. That is when you will find the speakers hanging around. Plan your lunch outing to include a few fellow attendees. Be open and conversational with those around you. I am a huge USC fan, so I would walk to McKays– a good spot with plenty of USC football memorabilia on the walls. Sometimes you can find the next day’s speakers at the Day 1 after party. Need a bar? Hit the 901 Club for cheap beer, drinks, and food.
Jeff Caves is a sales columnist for BSM working in radio, digital, hyper-local magazine, and sports sponsorship sales in DFW. He is credited with helping launch, build, and develop SPORTS RADIO The Ticket in Boise, Idaho, into the market’s top sports radio station. During his 26 year stay at KTIK, Caves hosted drive time, programmed the station, and excelled as a top seller. You can reach him by email at firstname.lastname@example.org or find him on Twitter @jeffcaves.
Amanda Brown Has Embraced The Bright Lights of Hollywood
“My whole goal was that I didn’t need people to like me; I needed people to respect me.”
The tragic passing of Kobe Bryant and eight others aboard a helicopter, including his 13-year-old daughter Gianna, sent shockwaves around the world of sports, entertainment, and culture. People traveled to Los Angeles following the devastating news and left flowers outside the then-named STAPLES Center, the arena which Bryant called home for much of his career, demonstrating the magnitude of the loss. Just across the street from the arena, Amanda Brown and the staff at ESPN Los Angeles 710 had embarked in ongoing breaking news coverage, lamentation, and reflection.
It included coverage of a sellout celebration of life for Kobe and his daughter and teams around the NBA opting to take 8-second and 24-second violations to honor Bryant, who wore both numbers throughout his 20-year NBA career. They currently hang in the rafters at Crypto.com Arena, making Bryant the only player in franchise history to have two numbers retired.
During this tumultuous time, Bryant’s philosophy served as a viable guiding force, something that Brown quickly ascertained in her first month as the station’s new program director.
“I had people that were in Northern California hopping on planes to get here,” Brown said. “You didn’t even have to ask people [to] go to the station; people were like, ‘I’m on my way.’ It was the way that everybody really came together to do really great radio, and we did it that day and we did it the next day and we did it for several days.”
The 2023 BSM Summit is quickly approaching, and Brown will be attending the event for the first time since 2020. During her first experience at the BSM Summit in New York, Brown had just become a program director and was trying to assimilate into her role. Because of this, she prioritized networking, building contacts, and expressing her ideas to others in the space. This year, she looks forward to connecting with other program directors and media professionals around the country while also seeking to learn more about the nuances of the industry.
“The Summit is kind of like a meeting of the minds,” Brown said. “It’s people throughout the country and the business…. More than anything, [the first time] wasn’t so much about the panels as it was about the people.”
Growing up in Orange County, Brown had an interest in the Los Angeles Lakers from a young age, being drawn to play-by-play broadcaster Chick Hearn. Brown refers to Hearn as inspiration to explore a career in broadcasting. After studying communications at California State University in Fullerton, she was afforded an opportunity to work as a producer at ESPN Radio Dallas 103.3 FM by program director Scott Masteller, who she still speaks to on a regular basis. It was through Masteller’s confidence in her, in addition to support from operations manager Dave Schorr, that helped make Brown feel more comfortable working in sports media.
“I never felt like I was a woman in a male-dominated industry,” Brown said. “I always just felt like I was a part of the industry. For me, I’ve kind of always made it my goal to be like, ‘I deserve to be here; I deserve a seat at the table.’”
Brown quickly rose up the ranks when she began working on ESPN Radio in Bristol, Conn., working as a producer for a national radio show hosted by Mike Tirico and Scott Van Pelt, along with The Sports Bash with Erik Kuselias. Following five-and-a-half years in Bristol, Brown requested a move back to California and has worked at ESPN Los Angeles 710 ever since. She began her tenure at the station serving as a producer for shows such as Max and Marcellus and Mason and Ireland.
Through her persistence, work ethic and congeniality, Brown was promoted to assistant program director in July 2016. In this role, she helped oversee the station’s content while helping the entity maintain live game broadcast rights and explore new opportunities to augment its foothold, including becoming the flagship radio home of the Los Angeles Rams.
“Don’t sit back and wait for your managers or your bosses to come to you and ask what you want to do,” Brown advised. “Go after what you want, and that’s what I’ve always done. I always went to my managers and was like, ‘Hey, I want to do this. Give me a chance; let me do that.’ For the most part, my managers have been receptive and given me those opportunities.”
When executive producer Dan Zampillo left the station to join Spotify to work as a sports producer, Brown was subsequently promoted to program director where she has helped shape the future direction of the entity. From helping lead the brand amid its sale to Good Karma Brands in the first quarter of 2022; to revamping the daily lineup with compelling local programs, Brown has gained invaluable experience and remains keenly aware of the challenges the industry faces down the road. For sports media outlets in Los Angeles, some of the challenge is merely by virtue of its geography.
“We’re in sunny Southern California where there’s a lot of things happening,” Brown said. “We’re in the middle of Hollywood. People have a lot of opportunities – you can go to the mountains; you can go to the beach. I think [our market] is more about entertainment than it is about actual hard-core sports. Yes, obviously you have hard-core Lakers fans; you have hard-core Dodgers fans, but a majority of the fans are pretty average sports fans.”
Because of favorable weather conditions and an endless supply of distractions, Brown knows that the way to attract people to sports talk radio is through its entertainment value. With this principle in mind, she has advised her hosts not to worry so much about the specific topics they are discussing, but rather to ensure they are entertaining listeners throughout the process.
“People know the four letters E-S-P-N mean sports, but really our focus is more on entertainment more than anything,” Brown said. “I think the [talent] that stick out the most are the ones that are the most entertaining.”
Entertaining listeners, however, comes through determining what they are discussing and thinking about and providing relevant coverage about those topics. Even though it has not yet been legalized in the state of California, sports gambling content has been steadily on the rise since the Supreme Court made a decision that overturned the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act established in Murphy v. National Collegiate Athletic Association (2018). Nonetheless, Brown and ESPN Los Angeles 710 have remained proactive, launching a sports gambling show on Thursday nights to try to adjust to the growing niche of the industry.
Even though she has worked in producing and programming for most of her career, Brown is eager to learn about the effect sports gambling has on audio sales departments. At the same time, she hopes to be able to more clearly determine how the station can effectuate its coverage if and when it becomes legal in their locale.
“I know that a lot of other markets have that,” Brown said regarding the legalization of sports gambling. “For me, I’m interested to hear from people who have that in their markets and how they’ve monetized that and the opportunity.”
No matter the content, though, dedicated sports radio listeners are genuinely consuming shows largely to hear certain talent. Brown recalls receiving a compliment on Twitter earlier this quarter where a listener commented that he listens to ESPN Los Angeles 710 specifically for Sedano and Kap. Evidently, it acted as a tangible sign that her philosophy centered around keeping people engrossed in the content is working, and that providing the audience what it wants to hear is conducive to success.
At this year’s BSM Summit, Brown will be participating on The Wheel of Content panel, presented by Core Image Studio, featuring ESPN analyst Mina Kimes and FOX Sports host Joy Taylor. Through their discussion, she intends to showcase a different perspective of what goes into content creation and the interaction that takes place between involved parties.
“A lot of times in the past, all the talent were on one panel; all the programmers were on one panel,” Brown said. “To put talent and a programmer together, I think it’s an opportunity for people to hear both sides on certain issues.”
According to the most recent Nielsen Total Audience Report, AM/FM (terrestrial) radio among persons 18-34 has a greater average audience than television. The statistical anomaly, which was forecast several years earlier, came to fruition most likely due to emerging technologies and concomitant shifts in usage patterns.
Simultaneously, good content is required to captivate consumers, and radio, through quantifiable and qualifiable metrics, has been able to tailor its content to the listening audience and integrate it across multiple platforms of dissemination. The panel will give Brown a chance to speak in front of her peers and other industry professionals about changes in audio consumption, effectuated by emerging technologies and concomitant shifts in usage patterns.
Yet when it comes to radio as a whole, the patterns clearly point towards the proliferation of digital content – whether those be traditional radio programs or modernized podcasts. Moreover, utilizing various elements of presentation provides consumers a greater opportunity of finding and potentially engaging with the content.
“We do YouTube streaming; obviously, we stream on our app,” Brown said. “We’ve even created, at times, stream-only shows whether it’s stream-only video or stream-only on our app. We all know that people want content on-demand when they want it. I think it’s about giving them what they want.”
As a woman in sports media, Brown is cognizant about having to combat misogyny from those inside and outside of the industry, and is grateful to have had the support of many colleagues. In holding a management position in the second-largest media market in the United States, she strives to set a positive example to aspiring broadcasters. Additionally, she aims to be a trusted and accessible voice to help empower and give other women chances to work in the industry – even if she is not universally lauded.
“I’ve kind of always made it my goal to be like, ‘I’m no different than anyone else – yes, I’m a female – but I’m no different than anyone else,’” Brown expressed. “My whole goal was that I didn’t need people to like me; I needed people to respect me.”
Through attending events such as the BSM Summit and remaining immersed in sports media and the conversation at large about the future of sports media, Brown can roughly delineate how she can perform her job at a high level.
Although the genuine future of this business is always subject to change, she and her team at ESPN Los Angeles 710 are trying to come up with new ideas to keep the content timely, accurate, informative, and entertaining. She is content in her role as program director with no aspirations to become a general manager; however, remaining in her current role requires consistent effort and a penchant for learning.
“Relationships are very important overall in this business whether you’re a programmer or not,” Brown said. “Relationships with your talent; relationships with your staff. If you invest in your people, then they’re going to be willing to work hard for you and do what you ask them to do.”
The 2023 BSM Summit is mere days away, and those from Los Angeles and numerous other marketplaces will make the trip to The Founder’s Club at the Galen Center at the University of Southern California (USC).
Aside from Brown, Kimes and Taylor, there will be other voices from across the industry sharing their thoughts on aspects of the industry and how to best shape it going forward, including Colin Cowherd, Rachel Nichols, Al Michaels and Eric Shanks. More details about the industry’s premiere media conference can be found at bsmsummit.com.
“I’m excited to be a female program director amongst male program directors for the first time and get a seat at the table and represent that there can be diversity in this position,” Brown said. “We don’t see a lot of it, but… there is an opportunity, and I hope I can be an example for other people out there [to show] that it’s possible.”
Derek Futterman is a features reporter for Barrett Sports Media. In addition, he interns in video production with the New York Islanders and formerly worked as production manager for the team’s radio broadcasts. He previously interned for Paramount within Showtime Networks, wrote for the Long Island Herald and served as lead sports producer at NY2C. To get in touch, find him on Twitter @derekfutterman.